make starting browser more obvious

[Nick_Levinson]

Please clarify the next step after a browser file is downloaded. Add a line of text to what the CLI terminal displays before the root prompt starts to wait for the user to provide input. Above that prompt, in a bright color, tell the user to open the root account (and remind the user of the root password), go to the tmp directory, decompress the desired file, go to the main menu, and find the browser. Write this as a numbered list, not as a single line that word-wraps, because a numbered list is easier for most people to follow.

I use Porteus to solve some problem that my usual operating system won't solve. Therefore, I use it only occasionally. I was using version 1.1 until a few weeks ago, when I discovered that various important websites will no longer let me in, since 1.1 had its browser on the live disc and so it hadn't been updated in maybe years and so TLS was outdated and so peer-to-peer communication with modern websites failed.

Of course, geeks don't need help figuring out what to do. I figured it out both times I needed it. But I learned from a Linux-only hardware dealer that many customers ask questions that are, in my opinion, stupid even among Windows users. And, each time I used version 4.0, figuring it out took time, which in an emergency would be frustrating and lead most users to blame Porteus. And I can't access the Internet from that laptop until then. So, I think many Porteus users will highly appreciate having the CLI terminal tell them what to do next.

I suppose that a pro-security convention for distros on live discs is that the root password is revealed only once, and only during bootup. But geeks are generally expected never to use the root account. So, at the early point when the root password is displayed, people may not memorize it. Therefore, most users, if they can't scroll up in the terminal, would have to reboot, catch the one password revelation, and repeat the process up to the point of needing it, which is kludgy. This should be an exception; repeat the password in the CLI.

This would add almost no overhead (about 200 bytes) and would be simpler than designing Porteus to automate decompression and starting of the preferred browser.

Thank you.

[francois]

Hello Nick,

Thanks for your comments. Are you writing about porteus 5.0 rc2 candidate or porteus 4.0?

However, you have to know that porteus is a very small community that has nothing to do with such huge distributions like windows or ubuntu. Up to 2018-2019, there was a unique and only developper. We would be glad to have the means that windows and ubuntu have.

When microsoft with its desktop environment, word, excel, etc. upgrades versions, you find it so intuitive? If this is the case for you, its has not been my case. In fact, the reason for migrating to linux was exactly for that matter.

I wouldn't say that porteus is for geeks only. Maybe that you should work a little more often with it. If you want to take part to the advancement of the community, we would be really glad.

Very cordially!

[Nick_Levinson]

I'm writing about 4.0. That was the latest just before I posted and I don't like to run unstable versions of anything.

I wish I could give more time to help out with FOSS, including Porteus, more substantially.

My view of Windows is that it is not as good technically, especially on security, as Linux/BSD FOSS but that Windows does have one advantage: Windows is, with exceptions, friendlier to users. Microsoft Word's ribbon is not good but their help system is often friendlier. Linux has improved but not to the point of catching up to, or surpassing, Windows. I use Ubuntu and its advantage over other Linux distros was also relative user-friendliness.

User-friendliness tends to increase acceptance among the public. That tends to grow the total installed base. That tends to entice developers to come in. That's a good goal.

Linux is not for geeks only, but many geeks associated with it don't like making it any easier to use. Linux in its earliest days was not easy to use. For that matter, neither was DOS. And geekiness in software is often the result simply of introducing a feature that is technologically important and someone needs to get it out the door, so that friendliness comes later, when someone has the time to add it. That's not anyone's fault, but, even without fault, if we can improve it, that will be good.

Thank you for the invitation.

[francois]

Windows offering the linux kernel:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534 ... el-feature

Maybe you will be happy to read the possible take over of linux by microsoft:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-tor ... ver-linux/

[Nick_Levinson]

Wow. Both a year-plus old and I hadn't heard of the integration, and maybe I'll look into whether that means Windows has no other kernel. I'm skeptical that a takeover is impossible; should Linux get plagued with patent-infringing code, patent holders care to sue, and the damages climb high enough to cause bankruptcy, that could force a rights ownership change and a change in licensing at least for new code and likely all code in a later version of the kernel by court order, but good management should prevent that kind of financial difficulty. I think the Linux Foundation is in a position to handle that.

[francois]

Apple is running on open BSD, another unix version for laptops.

The article is quite interesting, stating that without big industries Linux wouldn´t be viable.

[francois]

If you have some important reccomandations for the next porteus edition, here is a thread to do so:
User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

[Nick_Levinson]

On post #6:

That surprises me, and I poked around the Web and found some suggestions like that. I wondered which Apple products were involved; e.g., iOS uses OpenBSD, from NeXT days. I thought Apple computers ran on Unix. I used to use 68k Macs; it had System, which was Apple's own OS at no extra charge, but a Unix derivative was available for purchase (I never used it). The 68k SE had only 4MB RAM max and a 20MB HDD and yet was a remarkably powerful machine, running Word, Illustrator (a high-end vector graphics program), and PageMaker (DTP). Part of its power was its efficiency due to the monitor being B&W only (i.e., 1-bit color depth vs. today's 32-bit).

I didn't see that article, but I'm not surprised. Microsoft was an enemy of Linux for quite a while, supporting lawsuits and clobbering it on hard drives where Windows was being installed after Linux. When IBM started supporting Linux, part of that support was looking for possible patent infringements in Linux code. Linus Torvalds was on the cover of BusinessWeek long ago about having set aside $10 million to defend users of Linux against infringement claims; that was a reach for the business community. Linux Foundation became Linus' home, so to speak, and it started with support from four major backers, including IBM. The OSS license made it attractive to users who didn't have to account for machine quantities, like they do with MS licenses, so a spread throughout industry was likely as long as Linux could do the jobs. If it had been around for 25 years with little adoption by big industries, that probably would have meant it wasn't much good.

I tried using TrueOS and PC-BSD but, in terms of commands to use, it was like a whole new OS, not just a little different from Linux. Likewise, FreeBSD. I had to decide whether it was worth starting climbing the learning curve. It wasn't.

On post #7: I added.

[Rava]

(and remind the user of the root password)

you know that the user can change the root password in the running system? if user did so telling him "toor" is the root password would be a mistake.

change the root password even via a script is possible- that holds the password only encrypted. here as example to set root password back to "toor":
User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0 (Post by Rava #79540)

[Nick_Levinson]

Okay; the repetition is optional. However, someone who has changed the root password at that stage is likely a more sophisticated user and the message I'm proposing is more for the newbie, such as someone running Porteus from a live disc made from a downloaded official .iso file. So, the reminder could be phrased thus: "If the root password has not been changed, the default password is . . . ."

By the way, the issue you raise also raises the issue of for whom the welcome help is intended. Users who change root passwords with scripts are probably not newbies to Linux.

[Rava]

the issue you raise also raises the issue of for whom the welcome help is intended. Users who change root passwords with scripts are probably not newbies to Linux.

My trick of using the data as encrypted in /etc/shadow is only one way to conveniently change the root password. Simply using passwd is a more common one. And changing root password when the one in use is widely known all across the intertubes is not that much of a sign of a expert Linux user, just common sense when one takes security seriously.

[Nick_Levinson]

It is a good idea, but that's beyond newbie level. See brittlebit.org/security/default-passwords-when-common-are-dangerous-get-rid-of-them-now.html (which I wrote).