Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Non release banter
Post Reply
raja
Shogun
Shogun
Posts: 213
Joined: 02 May 2017, 09:51
Distribution: v3.2.2-32 and v5.0-rc1-zstd-64
Location: Chennai,India

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#1 by raja » 05 Aug 2019, 10:57

Will it be alright to move Nemesis to the forefront, I mean a listing in the first page of this forum? Fairly active and deserves a place, at least under other or special category..
Linux Kernel-4.4.120-32 bit; Linux kernel-5.2-64 bit.

User avatar
M. Eerie
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 179
Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 21:18
Distribution: APorteus BUDGIE x64

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#2 by M. Eerie » 06 Aug 2019, 19:50

Indeed. Cout me in

I've been using it for several months now, and nothing else. No need to install. Runs fast, and with the addition of AppImages/Flatpaks, you can get a full working system.

You got kernels from Neko, OpenRC with Artix repos and a monthly update by ncmprhnsbl (I almost wrote it right without search... ) :)

Pacman is friendly and makes easy to get a taylored and modular system once you learn to operate it ( -Uddr and -Sddw are your friends).

Since yesterday I know epub-fu. Got a working Text to Speech environment, and that was the only thing I've missed from Window$ world, althought Balabolka is a gem.

I'd only add netsurf to the base family.

One thing I have to investigate is the wireless network which seems to be pretty unstable on my laptop. Maybe the realtek issue... Will look into it

A gift from the masters. Great job

:beer:

nanZor
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 185
Joined: 09 Apr 2019, 03:27
Distribution: Porteus 5.0 RC1 XFCE
Location: Los Angeles

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#3 by nanZor » 06 Aug 2019, 22:48

I'd try it, but unless it goes semi-official, I have FOUR years of threads to dig through to understand.

Starting from 2015 in the "how to get it" thread, is it really based on Manjaro and OpenRC? Or is it now Archlinux and systemd?

Wait - in 2017 it switched to Artix? You can see the dilemna of someone coming in cold. What will it be next year?

To my eye, the community here has divided much like the 3 BSD's - Freebsd / Netbsd / Openbsd for various reasons. The main reason of course is the lack of developer resources and the need for a real life. I understand.

But instead of bsd, we now have 3 similar divisions, classic Slackware base, vs Kiosk and gentoo, and Nemesis with either Manjaro or Arch. Or Artix. Or...

Slackware - if anything was stable. Despite being a dependency pita, and representing a single-point of "achievement" if you will, forever waiting for the other shoe to drop for the next release. I get it.

All friends no doubt, but a major dilution of effort and re-creating the wheel. Fun for some I guess.

Let's get real - do we want to just follow the tide and become yet another distribution that wants to be an app-store? Or do we stick to the original principles of having end-users polish the rough edges of a limited development team, and *enjoy* doing so - even if that source was not always the latest and shiniest?

THAT is the real demographic for Porteus in whatever flavor it turns into. People who think it fun to turn wrenches and get hands dirty when need be. If one wants shiny, they just turn to Windows, Apples, Chromebooks, or one of the top ten in distrowatch to just blast out a desktop replacement.

Porteus was *never* that for me, and quite frankly, had it been just a shiny desktop / app store, I never would have donated.
That's a UNIX book - cool. -Garth

User avatar
ncmprhnsbl
DEV Team
DEV Team
Posts: 2249
Joined: 20 Mar 2012, 03:42
Distribution: 5.0rc1-64bit all-DE+more
Location: australia
Contact:

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#4 by ncmprhnsbl » 07 Aug 2019, 00:19

nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
is it really based on Manjaro and OpenRC? Or is it now Archlinux and systemd?
in it's current form, it uses Artix (which in turn uses it's own and part of Arch repos) .. the init and service management is handled by OpenRC
(Artix was born from the now defunct Manjaro openrc project)
package management is handled by pacman with pman as a wrapper that handles easy module conversion of packages.
nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
But instead of bsd, we now have 3 similar divisions, classic Slackware base, vs Kiosk and gentoo, and Nemesis
4(at least) actually, nekos APorteus which uses Arch repos and systemd (but not pacman) (there's also a debian flavour out there some where too)
nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
re-creating the wheel.
to me, it's more a case of fitting the (porteus) wheel to different carts ;)
Forum Rules : https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=44

nanZor
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 185
Joined: 09 Apr 2019, 03:27
Distribution: Porteus 5.0 RC1 XFCE
Location: Los Angeles

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#5 by nanZor » 07 Aug 2019, 01:25

Different carts indeed - there's also DragonFlyBSD with smp and hammer filesystem. So sad to see these guys break up like that instead of providing a unified front. Oh well, that's real life for ya'. :)

I'm with Raja on this one about Nemesis - I think it needs more clarification from the devs about what the current status and aims are, instead of going through 4 years of threads - as interesting as they are.

I mention the donation - not so much as a bribe to keep the Slackware version of Porteus going forever (although I wouldn't mind more rc's following -current, but I know that's not in the cards), but just a show of respect for what *has already been done* over the years - despite the fan-out of interests. Maybe drop a dime to Pat too. Ok, enough of that.

Thanks to the devs no matter what they do ... *I* certainly couldn't put it together myself!
That's a UNIX book - cool. -Garth

csanchez
White ninja
White ninja
Posts: 19
Joined: 07 May 2019, 00:58
Distribution: Porteus 4.0 Cinnamon x86

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#6 by csanchez » 07 Aug 2019, 05:03

ncmprhnsbl wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 00:19
nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
is it really based on Manjaro and OpenRC? Or is it now Archlinux and systemd?
in it's current form, it uses Artix (which in turn uses it's own and part of Arch repos) .. the init and service management is handled by OpenRC
(Artix was born from the now defunct Manjaro openrc project)
package management is handled by pacman with pman as a wrapper that handles easy module conversion of packages.
nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
But instead of bsd, we now have 3 similar divisions, classic Slackware base, vs Kiosk and gentoo, and Nemesis
4(at least) actually, nekos APorteus which uses Arch repos and systemd (but not pacman) (there's also a debian flavour out there some where too)
nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
re-creating the wheel.
to me, it's more a case of fitting the (porteus) wheel to different carts ;)
I'm sorry for my ignorance but I have some time reading about that "Nemesis" in the forum
While by other side I'm using the APorteus (lxqt) build by neko.
Sincerely im ignorant about all this but I will like know a bit more, so..
What is all that? We have this:
1. Porteus, the official one based on Slackware right?
2. APorteus, the neko builds based on arch?
3. Nemesis
I don't know exactly what is this one, but I can read some recommendation from many ones in the forum, even with neko participation.
What is the difference with APorteus? Where I can find the latest image to download?
4. What more we have out there? :P

Can someone explain me this a bit?

User avatar
M. Eerie
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 179
Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 21:18
Distribution: APorteus BUDGIE x64

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#7 by M. Eerie » 07 Aug 2019, 20:19

nanZor wrote:
06 Aug 2019, 22:48
re-creating the wheel
Controversial statment... :) It's more of a logical step to me.
Slowing down development to warrant stability is respectable but you can't freeze progress forever...

From my POV, migrating from Slackware to Arch is a rough move , thought every time Nemesis heads out of his niche, the Slackware zealots squirm in their chair fearing another app-store project in the budding.

I think it's simple than that. I would call it simplicity and this has nothing to do with App-stores.

From my POV, the controversy generated every time Nemesis shows its head is due to the rough movement that involves the migration of Slackware to Arch. Opposite worlds, as the name implies.

The former offers stability but lacks an easy way to expand to beginners like me. The other easily expandable, but more unstable due to its rolling nature.

I've been using Porteus since slax (and then slitaz) went into sleep and I must say it has been a fantastic experience to learn a lot from the readings in this forum. But, all I want it's just a fast, versatile and predictable system on the run. Ready to use and deliver what I want in (almost) every scenario. And let's face it, managing modules and dependencies in official Porteus, is just more complicated (at least to me). I find pacman easier to use, and hassle free with dependencies. Just remember that there is a section in the forum called "module requests"... With Nemesis, this is no more. I've even been using Nemesis to build modules for Porteus. Although it feels dirty.

Nemesis just fills that gap, and I think his learning curve is faster.

Finally, you can always freeze your setup and choose not to update your modules/system once you get all things set and ready. Or maybe you can choose to update every six months.

Achieving this is the challenge or the fun. if you wish. One has to learn anyhow.

Cheers!

nanZor
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 185
Joined: 09 Apr 2019, 03:27
Distribution: Porteus 5.0 RC1 XFCE
Location: Los Angeles

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#8 by nanZor » 08 Aug 2019, 07:58

I get what you are saying.

I'm just saying that Nemesis is all but invisible to most users. If one is seeking mindshare / new developers and such, then perhaps 4 years of development warrants some sort of notification and ease of download from the main Porteus web page, not just in the user-contributed area. Because right now, the only thing people know about Porteus is that it is based on Slackware, and to a new user, it looks like it is going to be fully supported, regardless of what Pat's timeline is all about.

So no zealotry involved.

Slitaz is a good example - unable to keep up with uefi and more modern hardware changes, there is only a handful of users / devs left with irregular input - despite having a very nice project webpage. Ghost-town. I'm just worried that Porteus might become that as well, with only Nemesis being active in a sub-forum, where one is *really* supposed to go.

Ease of use - Tomasz and fanthom figured out awhile back that most new users to linux only want to serve media / browsing, and are not interested at all in the underlying system. Hence their current browser-based application distro, albeit the new Slax seems to be getting pulled back into being a regular distro again bit by bit.

Porteus Classic - rather than being a case of progress-impeding zealots, (and I know you didn't mean that harshly), in my mind, those interested in Slackware and derivatives based on it, are because they value the long-term dedication and mission if you will, to those interested in the underlying operating system, and willing to learn / create / teach on their own without corporate leverage - pick your poison - systemd, app-stores and the like. And in the case of Porteus, I highly value all the little *personal* scripts, gui's, helpers and such that really put the personal touch of the devs on it. It isn't a "me too" distro that merely emulates every other.

So again - I'm with Raja on this - if Nemesis is the future, then stop beating around the bush and make a move.
That's a UNIX book - cool. -Garth

User avatar
M. Eerie
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 179
Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 21:18
Distribution: APorteus BUDGIE x64

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#9 by M. Eerie » 08 Aug 2019, 16:11

nanZor wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 07:58
(and I know you didn't mean that harshly)
Indeed. Please accept my apologies, for I didn't intend to offense anyone. I must improve my english (and my CP/M). Sorry.



Over the last years I have seen some thoughts here and there on the topic, but it always ends the same. Feels like Nemesis is an outlaw word yet is systemd-free...

I think the Arch base it is somehow mature now and provides for a good resource of packages and I agree with both of you. Nemesis should be visible in the forum.

On the other hand, the use cases have been evolving over the last years, at least for me. The raspberry irruption, kodi, etc. Still is amazing Porteus can deal with all this and survive in such a ever-changing scenario. This is a prove of his versatility and should extend his life expectancy and encourage us.

Allowing the end user more autonomy and letting him create their own packages/bundles should free developers of worthless tasks, which in turn, should result in more of that personal touch that we appreciate.

So, maybe we can have a long-term stable branch (Slackware based) and then an erogenous area in the forum for an Arch based one.

In the meantime, I intend to contribute to Nemesys (this way should cross the border :p ) as ncmprhsnsbl, neko, Jack and others did.

Also, there is hope for a minimal convergence, which seems logical. In the announcement of Porteus 5.0. rc1 you see:

"Slackware updated the pkgtools package which moved all package info files to /var/lib/pkgtools/packages. A symlink was left at /var/log/packages"

And I see jssouza is interested on kernel/initrd confluence.

Let's face it, most of us already start wearing glasses and let things forgotten anywhere... We deserve some rest :roll:

:beer:

Cheers!

nanZor
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 185
Joined: 09 Apr 2019, 03:27
Distribution: Porteus 5.0 RC1 XFCE
Location: Los Angeles

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#10 by nanZor » 09 Aug 2019, 10:03

No apology needed!

I try, and often fail, to live up to the 2 rules about the code of conduct when I was involved in the Fidonet store-n-forward dialup network in the mid 80's. Saved me from decades of high-blood pressure, even though at times the very leaders seemed to ignore that code. :) So no sweat.

So for me, Porteus isn't just about code or what is the current tech-flavor. I see and read what appears to be passionate discourse, which is to be expected of something we ourselves are passionate about, but not many rants which can destroy a community.

Porteus isn't putting a roof over my head, so just sitting back and chilling out waiting for what's to come whatever it is, seems the best policy for me...

CP/M - heh, It's been awhile since I've run linux > dos emulator > cpm emulator for kicks. About the closest I get these days is firing up the JOE editor (called up as jstar) to relive some finger muscle memory of the Wordstar key bindings. I'm still amazed at how much better it is than pico/nano !
That's a UNIX book - cool. -Garth

User avatar
M. Eerie
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 179
Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 21:18
Distribution: APorteus BUDGIE x64

Nemisis-the God of retributive Justice

Post#11 by M. Eerie » 09 Aug 2019, 19:08

nanZor wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 10:03
Wordstar
Ohhhh! :cry:

Post Reply