User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

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Rava
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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#16 by Rava » 06 Nov 2020, 16:47

I came up with a different approach:

A general text that give the info that with Porteus we try to give an OS to be as easy to use as possible while also trying to give as many possibilities as well.

In other words: an explanation why individual setup makes sense - [ code] example is okay as it is, but the [ quote] explanation is way too long.

Also adding Ed_Ps ideas above in the main [ quote] area.
Since automatization cannot work for all details - like one user wants always fresh, only saving changes manually - while others want Porteus behave like a regular installed OS with all changes and data saved automatically. We would have to create a complex setup system unlike the SM-Witless XP/Vista/7/8/10 one. While no user new to SM-Witless ever complained about having to answer a bunch of setup questions, even most SM-Witless user migrating to Porteus/Linux would complain if Porteus would ask even only half of such setup questions.
Therefore we ask nothing. You can disable this setup by clicking [whatever method we choose]. If you use the always fresh approach create this empty file in the rootcopy folder: $PORTDIR/rootcopy/root/.config/noporteussetupinfo
If you not even use rootcopy, you can use this kernel cheatcode instead: noporteussetupinfo or npsi.

If you want to have setup options to go through, you have to use the rootcopy folder or any other method to remember data. This can even be done by creating a setup module that you need to include into your porteus/base folder. Click here for the setup options, that also includes explanatory info.
Then, when the user clicks on details to go through the setup options use an approach that has only

Code: Select all

main matter: saving changes
* approach a   (short explanation) [ ]
* approach b   (short explanation) [ ]
* approach c   (short explanation) [ ]
{click here for pros and cons about the different saving changes approaches}
In the above example one of a b or c is mandatory, the user cannot just leave all unchecked.

With other matters the user can leave all unchecked when the matter is not mandatory.

Like I already said:
The [ code] example is okay as it is, but the [ quote] explanation is very much less so :crazy: - way too long.
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#17 by Nick_Levinson » 07 Nov 2020, 02:00

Q. not repeating passwords

A password boosts security by restricting who can use a given account, which is more important with the more-powerful account for root but is also important for any account if you don't want settings changed, saved files altered, etc. without your permission. This also applies to live discs and embedded systems, and Porteus is for both. But passwords should be secret except for people who are authorized to know them. A live disc must disclose them or no one using the disc would know them. But a password should not be disclosed too often or it becomes likely that unauthorized people will get them. Stating the passwords more often than necessary for security and usability multiplies the security risk. One risk is from shoulder-surfing, which is when you're typing at your keyboard and someone in the room, who sees what form you're filling in, looks over your shoulder (so to speak) to see what you're typing and what's on your screen, including passwords. That's no good. So, disclose passwords as rarely as you can.

Q. on a user deciding not to have the new features

Developer creativity is fine. User input on bugs and desirable features is also fine. I was responding to the NEWWAY/OLDWAY choice. If I misunderstood, please let me know.

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#18 by Rava » 07 Nov 2020, 04:19

^
Some years back I initiated the voting if the standard user - that also runs X - should be root, or if the standard user should be what became guest, non root, standard restricted user.
I argued security, I argued even when it is a live system, when a cracker got access via root, and that is made easy when all and any X programs are owned by root, such cracker can easily access anything, what if the system has ext2/3/4 Linux partitions? The cracker can easily access all data on the hard drives, and change folders and files like he pleases. You have your folder and modules in porteus/base owned by root and only accessibly by root?
Fear not, cracker, since all on Porteus ran as root, easy access.

The overall numbers of people voted was around a meagre 20, but luckily for us, the majority voted for the standard being the guest account.

And when first booting a live system, it is obvious we need to use well known passwords.
But even that can be altered: a user already familiar with Porteus can create a mini-module that only has a changed password for root and guest. The user must make sure by naming his/her modules accordingly that such password.xzm module gets loaded after the regular Porteus module that stores the standard well-known passwords.

For the foreseeable future, there will be no need for changing anything about how root or guest are handled, so such password.xzm should work fine for Porteus 3.* to 5.* with no exceptions.
Or do I miss something crucial here?
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#19 by Ed_P » 07 Nov 2020, 06:37

Some users who have customized their root password have encountered problems with some porteus scripts and modules.
Ed

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#20 by Rava » 07 Nov 2020, 08:06

Ed_P wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 06:37
Some users who have customized their root password have encountered problems with some porteus scripts and modules.
i change my root password in the running system via script to be run as root - readable only to root (security reasons) - like so

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
VERSION="0.1"
MYNAME=mypasswd-reset
echo -e $yel$bld$MYNAME$off$yel V$VERSION$off
echo 'root:$5$ta0pL/AtY.S/B$o8ua3In1IRPSRbmWpjp4CXgsgTzDJ/UY2Kt/7dYxbGD' | chpasswd -e
this is the variant to change password back to "root". Where do you get the seemingly random characters from? look into /etc/shadow

And after changing root password into a strong one by running just one script that holds the password never verbatim (after logging in as root with password toor at least once) i never encountered any issues with any porteus scripts or modules. :D
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#21 by Ed_P » 09 Nov 2020, 17:05

Ed_P wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 16:41
I agree with Nick too. Short and simple.

1.Passwords - needed to perform certain update steps.
Admin - toor
Guest - guest

2. How to connect to the Internet

3. How to get a Browser
Menu -> Internet -> Browser Selection app

4. How to save changes

5. Help - https://forum.porteus.org

A sentence or 2 for numbers 2 and 4.
:hammer: Numbers 4 and 5 should be combined to be:

4. Menu > Administration > Porteus Settings Centre
For help saving changes, changing passwords, time, sound and much more.
Ed

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#22 by Rava » 10 Nov 2020, 02:52

Rava wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 16:47
I came up with a different approach:
No one to comment on my approach for a most simple general explanation that all but the most seasoned user will profit from clicking [continue with setup] – and why.

And the follow up window not only offering info but also setup options to be integrated right then and there by clicking [apply] instead of [abort]. :)

Or it offers more in depth info on topic only when user wishes like in my example
Rava wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 16:47

Code: Select all

main matter: saving changes
* approach a   (short explanation) [ ]
* approach b   (short explanation) [ ]
* approach c   (short explanation) [ ]
{click here for pros and cons about the different saving changes approaches}
In the above example one of a b or c is mandatory, the user cannot just leave all unchecked.

With other matters the user can leave all unchecked when the matter is not mandatory.
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#23 by Ed_P » 10 Nov 2020, 18:12

Rava wrote:
10 Nov 2020, 02:52
No one to comment on my approach for a most simple general explanation that all but the most seasoned user will profit from clicking [continue with setup] – and why.
Too complicated for a new 1st time linux user. A new user, as in my 1st time, especially a Windows user who is use to a full working system, wants to use the new system. You boot, you want access to the 'net so you can search for answers to any question you may/will have, and if you like what you see you may want to change the clock/timezone and save the setting for the next time you boot the system. After you decide to use the system eliminating the startup page/banner and changing the password and other options may be useful. Keeping it easy and simple is how to attack new users. Keeping them is having a helpful forum.
Ed

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#24 by francois » 05 Dec 2020, 14:42

And where are we now? Welcome window or no welcome window?
Prendre son temps, profiter de celui qui passe.

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#25 by Rava » 05 Dec 2020, 15:09

^
Lets make a poll. :friends:
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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User advice needed: welcome window at first boot for ver. 5.0

Post#26 by francois » 28 Dec 2020, 22:01

Maybe we should first come up with such welcome page first. :)
Prendre son temps, profiter de celui qui passe.

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