Porteus-v4.0rc4 bug reports

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Post#1 by brokenman » 14 Feb 2018, 23:37

Please post issues here.
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Post#2 by n0ctilucient » 16 Feb 2018, 09:37

Hi brokenman... I can't seem to locate the Python 2 deps tcl/tk in 001-core.xzm...

In both the USM and "depfinder" these are the expected dependencies.
:hmmm: I do NOT have the "right" to tell anyone what they should do...
but I reserve the "right" to tell them what they should "consider".

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Post#3 by burdi01 » 16 Feb 2018, 10:14

Congratulations to the team. :Bravo:
A question, not a bug : Current is a fast-moving target. Will updates c.q. new isos be released on every Current update, or once a week / month /whatever or only with a new release?
:D

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Post#4 by brokenman » 16 Feb 2018, 21:09

Hi brokenman... I can't seem to locate the Python 2 deps tcl/tk in 001-core.xzm...
You can download them via usm or the getpkg script:

Code: Select all

getpkg tcl
@burdi01
Updates will be tested and then pushed via two channels. One will be a new ISO and the other will be base module updates via the update-porteus script wherein porteus on writable media can be updated. I would expect updates around every two months or so at this stage.
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Post#5 by n0ctilucient » 16 Feb 2018, 21:52

Post Error...
Last edited by n0ctilucient on 16 Feb 2018, 23:57, edited 2 times in total.
:hmmm: I do NOT have the "right" to tell anyone what they should do...
but I reserve the "right" to tell them what they should "consider".

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Post#6 by brokenman » 16 Feb 2018, 23:17

n0ctilucient wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 21:52
The combined package size of a tcl/tk I believe is just south of 5mb.
Yes that's true, but where do we stop?

Open a console and run: usm -d
You will find many more missing dependencies. So the decision to be made is, where is the balance of size and usability? Do we build for developers, GUI users, online workers or what? If we include every dependency we have a rock solid system, but we sacrifice size. A dependency may only be there to serve one small fringe case purpose that the majority of users will never see. That's the reasoning behind leaving out tcl/tk. Developers can most certainly figure out that need to install these whereas the average Porteus user will never miss it, and may not even know how to obtain it.
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Post#7 by n0ctilucient » 16 Feb 2018, 23:26

Ok... so I'm starting to see the bigger picture.

Yes... the idea is to avoid bloat. And it's no state secret that I'm rabidly opposed to bloat.
A dependency may only be there to serve one small fringe case purpose that the majority of users will never see.
This then raises an important question... why was Python included without "required"
(as opposed to optional "fringe case") deps if it then ceases to be functional?

This is not a Dependency hell issue...
There is a difference between a minimal install (like a "solib" to reduce bloat) and a broken install.

Python does not function at all without tcl/tk which are the only required deps.
Porteus provides everything else needed.

The absence of these deps breaks Python.
Which then breaks everything that uses it.

It's like trying to use Gtk without glibc or a frontend without a backend.

In the end (no matter how you approach it)... the use of Python preinstalled
(or not?) ends up requiring a total of 19mb of packages for it to be functional @ all.

Would not the distro size be even smaller without Python... so anyone that
needs it would then be charged with the responsibility of correctly installing it?

The good news is... a "correct" install of Python (which is required by an enormous amount of binaries) would mean tons of stuff
would work out the box instead of requiring the extensive mitigation of the "non-functional" version regardless of user skill set (or ignorance).

What I'm trying to say is... installing a dsyfunctional broken binary doesn't reduce bloat
it creates it because the system is better off without it because it does not function..

The wasted space could better be used for something that actually works
that requires no additional deps (if required deps are perceived as bloat).

There is a solid argument for "correctly" installing Python if something already installed is actually using it.
Otherwise... a broken preinstall means the something will not function until the missing deps are installed.

If Python were in 003 instead of 001 there would be no
issue because it would be an optional DE dependency.

Apparently however... it appears the OS (000-002) requires it.
If this is the case... the broken install will lead to malfunction and/or bloat (which is the very thing you are trying to avoid).

I'm just trying to get on the same page so I can (finally?) use Porteus to build a net appliance.

I've been doing this DIY thing for almost 4yrs and the learning curve is wearing me out (or maybe I'm just lazy?).
In any case... every time I think I'm almost @ the finish line with my derivative the line keeps moving. LOL.

If I keep trying one day I'll get it right :oops:

Cheers and Best Regards...
Last edited by n0ctilucient on 17 Feb 2018, 19:30, edited 17 times in total.
:hmmm: I do NOT have the "right" to tell anyone what they should do...
but I reserve the "right" to tell them what they should "consider".

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Post#8 by Philip » 17 Feb 2018, 12:47

Porteus 4.0 rc4 LXDE 32-bit

Some points to report:

The Porteus settings centre does not start from the menu, but can be started from a root terminal.

I have found that the kmap settings when set from Porteus settings centre do not save. The entry needs to be in porteus.cfg

I also found that when the porteussave.dat file was made the entry appeared in the new Porteus-v4.0.cfg file, but the system didn't see this when restarted. This led me to use the original porteus.cfg instead.

PDF viewer: JPG's are not displaying if they are in a .pdf document.

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Post#9 by n0ctilucient » 17 Feb 2018, 13:39

Hi Philip... I use the 64bit Openbox DE release.

I haven't gotten around to it but I intend to activate the SpaceFM floating menu to allow Porteus dialog entries and apps.
Then editing the Openbox (or SpaceFM?) configuration adding /opt/porteus-scripts/porteus-settings-centre (and a few others).

I've used this workaround with PekWM.
:hmmm: I do NOT have the "right" to tell anyone what they should do...
but I reserve the "right" to tell them what they should "consider".

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Post#10 by fulalas » 17 Feb 2018, 20:11

@Philip, thanks for your detailed feedback! I'll fix the LXDE issues as soon as possible. :good:

@n0ctilucient, can you explain in more details what you want to do?

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Post#11 by brokenman » 17 Feb 2018, 20:14

Please post elsewhere about preferences. This thread is for bug reports. I'd like to minimize noise or else it makes sorting through bugs more difficult.
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Post#12 by n0ctilucient » 17 Feb 2018, 20:40

Hi brokenman...

This is not a request or preference or opinion. I know how to compile and install the correct solution.
It's an inquiry about something broken. My understanding is when something is broken it's a bug.

Therefore... I'm trying to point out something is broken.
I'm attempting to find out how an incomplete install is still functional.

If it is clarified how that is possible... I would have no inquiry in any venue.
And if such a thing is possible I'd like to incorporate that into my tactics to be a better developer.

And if there is no interest in addressing this issue I'm ok with that too.
Then I would again... have no further inquiry on this or any related issue.

The only other venue that comes to mind is PM.
Would you prefer I raise the issue there or perhaps in "Programming" or "Development"?

Those venues deal with problems. Perhaps you are saying this is a problem instead of a bug?

Hi fulalas... I would love to explain in detail. Would you like me to PM you?
Last edited by n0ctilucient on 18 Feb 2018, 04:42, edited 1 time in total.
:hmmm: I do NOT have the "right" to tell anyone what they should do...
but I reserve the "right" to tell them what they should "consider".

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Post#13 by brokenman » 17 Feb 2018, 21:53

n0ctilucient wrote:
17 Feb 2018, 20:40
Therefore... I'm trying to point out something is broken.
If something is broken please give specific examples of exactly where you believe that python is broken. My belief is that it is not broken at all, but rather missing some dependencies required for compiling. If those dependencies are absolutely vital to the runtime functionality of Porteus then I would include them. If something required for day to day operation for the average user is broken, then it needs fixing but you haven't given any examples of that. If they are only related to compiling then a developer (which is your case I believe) can install them as needed for their own projects.

poppler is missing some Qt dependencies too but I won't be including Qt in the base. Then perl is missing mariadb for some fringe case scenarios but it is not needed for our purposes. I understand that it is only ~5M of packages with a 10M memory footprint but I am trying to strip whatever I can. Porteus will naturally grow in size as other bloaty bases increase their reuirements. This is unavoidable. I would like to resist it wherever possible. If you'd like to discuss it further feel free to PM me, but I'd like to leave this thread open for bugs only.
Would you prefer I raise the issue there or perhaps in "Programming"?
This is probably the best option.
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Post#14 by n0ctilucient » 17 Feb 2018, 22:07

Ok... that sounds like a winner.
:hmmm: I do NOT have the "right" to tell anyone what they should do...
but I reserve the "right" to tell them what they should "consider".

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Post#15 by fulalas » 19 Feb 2018, 08:24

Philip wrote:
17 Feb 2018, 12:47
The Porteus settings centre does not start from the menu, but can be started from a root terminal.
I can't reproduce this issue here. Have you tried in Always Fresh mode?
Philip wrote:
17 Feb 2018, 12:47
PDF viewer: JPG's are not displaying if they are in a .pdf document.
Fixed. I'll upload a new module soon.

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