What is your favourite desktop?

Non release banter

Which desktop should be focused the most in Porteus 2.0?

Enlightenment
2
5%
Gnome
5
11%
Kde-3 Trinity
4
9%
Kde-4
10
23%
Lxde
13
30%
Xfce
10
23%
 
Total votes: 44

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#16 by crashman » 01 Aug 2011, 14:32

@blablotin

Fvwm crystal is another package than simple fvwm but I try your package !!

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#17 by francois » 01 Aug 2011, 20:16

I am very happy to realize that I am not the only one interested in the xfce deskstop. However, I do not have so much additional serious arguments in favor of this desktop. However, here are some gourmet's advice:
. general review http://linuxreviews.org/software/desktops/
. fast desktop http://floyd-linux.pappapc.com/
. gnome vs kde http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/kdegnome
. gnome, kde, xfce http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1757744

Food for thoughts! :D
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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#18 by wread » 09 Aug 2011, 02:05

I have an USB Stick loaded with 32-bit Porteus (KDE 4.2.1) taken from gusterapolis (Slax). I don't use it exclusively because it crashes ocassionaly. I posted it in this forum, a couple of months ago.

It is true that it needs longer to come to life, but once up and running it performs the same as Trinity and has many features that the others cannot offer; not remotely! And I run it with only 1.25 G of ram and 4 G swap in harddisk.

Definitely, if we are there to conker the world, we must come out with KDE 4.6.5, also for 32 bits Porteus, sooner than version 2 of Porteus. I would guess Porteus V 1.4.

Regards! 8)
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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#19 by BlackRider » 09 Aug 2011, 14:30

It is true that [KDE4] it needs longer to come to life, but once up and running it performs the same as Trinity and has many features that the others cannot offer; not remotely! And I run it with only 1.25 G of ram and 4 G swap in harddisk.
With only 1.25 G of RAM??

My own computer is 4 Gb of RAM plus 8 Gb of swap (just in case i need to hibernate, you know), but I use to work in some computers that are long the way back. One of them is less than 200 Mb, so KDE4 is out of the question. A distribution with a good implementation of LXDE would be good option for it, but Porteus lacks of that good implementation. Conclusion? That computer runs another distro.

The way I see it: any desktop environment that wastes 400 Mb of RAM for doing nothing is not serious. Debian Squeeze+LXDE uses less than 190 Mb unless you start compressing things with paq8o or start some other heavy work. I can understand lrzip to seize 3 Gb of RAM for working, but an environment that wastes 0.5 Gb just because it exists makes not much sense. In addition, the fact that you have to write down all that memory means that it takes longer for the apps to start working, etc, etc.

LXDE (when it is well done) gives you all you need. What is a desktop environment for? It is for helping you to manage your work, your windows and find your apps, plain and simple. LXDE has a window manager, and a pannel to find your apps and organize your work. It has everythig you need without uneeded resources comsumption. Something similar can be said of many other standalone window managers.
Definitely, if we are there to conker the world, we must come out with KDE 4.6.5, also for 32 bits Porteus
If we are to conker the world, we need a war strategy.

We have to offer something nobody else offers. After all, there are many known distributions around. Why would someone switch to Porteus if it didn't have attractive features not found in other distributions?

You cannot try to offer the most beautiful system, because the MacOS crowd and many other GNU/Linux distributions would be tought to defeat.

You cannot try to be the smallest distribution, because Slitaz and TinyCore control that field.

You cannot try to be the most user friendly, because many other Live distributions have had that idea before.

You cannot try to have the better hardware detection. Knoppix and Kanotix rule in this area.

What can you try?

You can try to be a hightly customizable Live distribution which offers an easy way to create a fully working environment just by adding and replacing modules from the medium.

The first step where custom changes begin is where the user sets the desktop environment. KDE4 is well cared off, but I think it's the only one. There are no official modules for common tasks that can be done in KDE but not in Porteus' LXDE. That turns any DE that is not KDE a poor option in Porteus, thus limiting the viability of LXDE (and any other environment) as a desktop.

What does the W.O.P.R recomend?

Make LOTS of hight quality official modules. Once you have many competitive environments availible for Porteus, the user will be able to install his own environment as he likes just by adding modules. If you have a gtk app for a task and a qt app for the same task, you are in the way to make a customizable desktop agnostic distribution, as everyone should be.

Easier said than done :ROFL:

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#20 by Hamza » 09 Aug 2011, 15:54

I agree with BlackRider!
NjVFQzY2Rg==

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#21 by fanthom » 10 Aug 2011, 07:38

@BlackRider

Code: Select all

A distribution with a good implementation of LXDE would be good option for it, but Porteus lacks of that good implementation. Conclusion? That computer runs another distro.
KDE is so far our main DE. We are trying to focus on it as it's the way to attract new people (mainly coming from Windows) to linux.
LXDE is designated for:
a) older PC's
b) more advanced users who knows how to install applications, deal with missing deps, configuration, etc.
Modular design of Porteus should keep all users happy: dont like KDE? - throw it out! feels that LXDE is a waste? - remove it completely!
Now please tell me what could be done to improve LXDE in Porteus which doesn't cost much of the ISO size.

Code: Select all

There are no official modules for common tasks that can be done in KDE but not in Porteus' LXDE. That turns any DE that is not KDE a poor option in Porteus, thus limiting the viability of LXDE (and any other environment) as a desktop.
The problem is that we dont know what user preferences are. We have started 2 threads where users can request apps which should be added to official repo:
http://porteus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=475
http://porteus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=485
the feedback was rather poor so i assume that users are happy with current applications set or knows how to create new modules themselves.
Please post in designated thread which apps are missing in LXDE (64bit edition) and i'll be happy to add them to official repo.

@all
i really like this thread - it's very important to know how people see the shape of Porteus in future releases. please keep posting your thoughts.

Cheers
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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#22 by Tonio » 10 Aug 2011, 16:06

I actually don't have a "favorite desktop". I like to use them all :) For instance, I like gnome 3 on Fedora 15, I have kde 4.6.X on Fedora 15 on a laptop, xfce on a netbook. Use porteus 32 bit for old KDE 3.X which was my comfort zone :) I like the 64 bit porteus for the snappiness & responsiveness, and also like LXDE and use it too on porteus and on Fedora.

I would like to say, since porteus is a community project and yours(all developers & contributors) is a gift to the world. We should not complain and accept what you provide for us. If we want something different, we need to step up and do it and contribute back to the community. At some points in my life, I used to complain and suggest programs(to Tomas from Slax), and thankfully to him, he responded back that the programs I suggested were not going in by default(that I had to create modules if I wanted those programs) and I learned a lesson :) I know that you guys (developers & contributors) want us users to be happy, and try to acommodate our wishes, but in reality we are never satisfied, we always want newer things, newer programs, newer kernels, newer testing versions(based on slackware current), etc. This is not needed or desired, You guys(developers & contributors) give us what you want/desire and we should be happy for what you do for us. We should be thankful and gladly use whichever desktop(s) you provide, if we do not like the desktop(s), one needs to step up to the plate and start contributing :)

My $0.02

EDIT:
I apologize for asking for newer kernels, newer programs, slackware-current :( Developers have lives, have work and they are not here to accomodate to us and give us everything for free. But if a new release is in the works, hopefully were are here and try to test things out, report bugs, add suggestions and overall give a big thumbs up to the community.

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#23 by wread » 03 Sep 2011, 02:08

This is a snapshot of my kde 4.7.0 in Porteus 32 bits! I am using it now to post this image!

Image

Cheers! 8)
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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#24 by crashman » 03 Sep 2011, 18:20

@wread
it's great :good:

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#25 by Tonio » 04 Sep 2011, 18:27

I have changed my mind and have voted :) Voted for LXDE!!! Like that it is lightweight, fast and new ideas posted by forum, incorporation of gnome-mplayer and others posted in another thread here somewhere. Things are looking better and better. Ponce does a great job as always, fanthom tests new things and things are better in the long run. Don't worry KDE lovers, KDE will be there, but in case one wants we can go one desktop only (LXDE) and have a smaller footprint and less resources taken by using it :) Win win situation.

@wread,
Great looking desktop screenshot of KDE 4.7? How does it run as compared to KDE 3.X? Lighter or heavier(little bit)? I run XFCE on Slackware 64. It runs very well too. But it is not worked on as much as KDE and LXDE.

@fanthom & brokenman

Whichever desktops are included, built and supported. They are working beautifully :)

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#26 by wread » 09 Sep 2011, 12:14

@Tonio
Kde-4.7.0 needs longer to come to life, but once up and running, it behaves the same as kde3. Both systems, when idling use the same procedures; so, you won't notice the higher weight of kde4. Besides, if you strip all what you don't really need, you can have it in a decent size. Read the Slax forum to learn what our friend Thomas is preparing: Slax 7.0 with kde4 in 180 Mb! :shock:

The new versions 4.7.x are now "atomized"; they are splitted in about 100 modules, and you can install what you need and no more. Try it! You can download the modules from alien.slackbook.org/ktown. Alien Bob is now by kde-4.7.1. If you experience slowness-es you can stick back to your simpler OS's. I bet you won't...

I am trying the full version first, and what I don't need, I will get rid of.

Regards!
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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#27 by wread » 09 Sep 2011, 12:15

@Tonio
Kde-4.7.0 needs longer to come to life, but once up and running, it behaves the same as kde3. Both systems, when idling use the same procedures; so, you won't notice the higher weight of kde4. Besides, if you strip all what you don't really need, you can have it in a decent size. Read the Slax forum to learn what our friend Thomas is preparing: Slax 7.0 with kde4 in 180 Mb! :shock:

The new versions 4.7.x are now "atomized"; they are splitted in about 100 modules, and you can install what you need and no more. Try it! You can download the modules from http://alien.slackbook.org/ktown. Alien Bob is now by kde-4.7.1. If you experience slowness-es you can stick back to your simpler OS's. I bet you won't...

I am trying the full version first, and what I don't need, I will get rid of.

Regards!
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
The Porteus Community never sleeps!

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#28 by Tonio » 09 Sep 2011, 23:08

@wread

Thank you for your encouragement. But I am not good at selecting and unselecting things :( I have screwed some systems up. I'd rather leave it to the experts, Tomas from Slax & fanthom & brokenman for Porteus. I hope to help in testing. Your system screenshots looked great and yes, I read about Tomas' work in slax forum :) I am now testing supposedly lighter desktops xfce & lxde. Still like KDE though :) I believe I won't remove it from default iso(s).

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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#29 by francois » 17 Sep 2011, 00:57

Was not Tomas talking about gnome at some point in his reflection? (though he seems to be going now for kde) And weren't we talking about gtk libraries for lxde and other packages as a better path for our OS?
http://www.tomas-m.com/blog/
http://porteus.org/forum/viewtopic.php? ... =gtk#p5783

Gnome flavor might have the advantage of attracting some linux crowd.

Thus I would change my xfce vote for gnome. Is it possible? :oops:
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Re: What is your favourite desktop?

Post#30 by fanthom » 18 Sep 2011, 20:30

@francois
Thus I would change my xfce vote for gnome. Is it possible?
unfortunately not as i have disabled this feature in this poll.
please remember that this poll is only for statistical purpose - it's not that important like previous polls were.

Speaking about the desktops - i'm quite surprised that nobody voted on the Trinity desktop so far. Download statistics shows that 32bit version is still 2x times more popular than 64 one. I recon that people want to try something new and this is the main reason of loosing interest in well known KDE-3 desktop.

Anyway - i'm still pretty convinced that KDE Trinity is probably the best choice for Porteus. please remember that main purpose of the live distro is to run on every PC which you can find across the globe. Porteus must be small, fast and have small impact on the PC resources (CPU, memory). Trinity meats all of these criteria perfectly.

I have measured memory usage on Slax-6.1.2, Porteus-0.9, Porteus-1.0 and Porteus-1.1-devel for KDE desktops straight after boot. here is the result:

Slax-6.1.2 KDE-3.5.10
86 MB
Porteus v09/32bit KDE-3.5.10
101 MB
Porteus v1.0/32bit KDE-3.5.12 Trinity
144 MB

Porteus v09/64bit KDE-4.5.4
343 MB
Porteus v1.0/64bit KDE-4.6.4
341 MB
Porteus v1.1-devel/64bit KDE-4.7.1
249 MB

A you can see Slax-6.1.2 with kde-3.5.10 takes lowest memory amount - 86 MB only. porteus-v09 with the same KDE version is 15 MB heavier (probably due to updated xorg, glibc, libs and other system components).
Kde Trinity in Porteus 1.0 eats 144 MB after start. This result is great comparing to 340MB of KDE-4 in Porteus-1.0 and 1.1

Luckily i have managed to shrink memory usage of upcoming Porteus-1.1 to 250MB for KDE-4.7.1. maybe i could get less but in the cost of reduced functionality so i have stopped here.
250MB is still huge amount comparing to 144 MB of the Trinity and that's why i'm happy to have LXDE as lighter KDE-4 replacement, which fits perfectly 64bit Intel atom and AMD APU processors :)

Cheers
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