General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#16 by francois » 07 Jun 2017, 17:30

I have forked this thread following falcony`s proposition https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=6983
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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#17 by Tonio » 07 Jun 2017, 22:14

Falcony wrote: Porteus needs policy for package contributes to OFFICIAL repository of packages(ftp, git) - stable and testing branches.
And maintainers of packages - OFFICLAL ones for each package - how care, test and upload its to OFFICIAL repository.

How organize this process and grant permission for conributors - tha's the right deal.
This same thing I have seen with Slax; It had new build scripts which built new modules according to his requirements. The same concepts can be "copied over" and the server can update the modules *.sb -> slax module, or *.xzm which we have been using. There is too much replication going on and packages from here and from there. There is no idiot proof way of doing this! There is too much work to be done! In slackware-current there is new gcc 7.x, new packages, stable kernel 4.9.30 or higher. Slackware is a great base, slackware live by alienbob has great many packages, but it has more than what most people need or want. The bigger question should be how to accomplish this without cutting off the contributors which have always helped, the main developers brokenman and fanthom, blaze, wread, Bogo*, etc if I forget a name please forgive me. There are some folks which have left to other places. Francois which has been loyal and helps in documentation, testing. How can this be done without losing some talented folks which help the distro. Falcony you have contributed to both slax and porteus, with packages and a mirror. Slackware plain comes with no package manager that takes care of deps, but it has installpkg, removepkg clean-system, etc.
I would have to conclude that whatever solution or determination is made, some folks will not be happy.
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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#18 by Falcony » 08 Jun 2017, 08:12

n0ctilucient wrote:Falcony... are you saying the site/forum needs a roadmap section?
First of all porteus need something like software team.
Let share what software you are using. Answer to this 2 simple q. if you care:
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php ... 983#p55765

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#19 by francois » 08 Jun 2017, 13:02

Modules or bundles or packages built from source for sure. In this respect, the problem is not of making a list of packages to offer, but about to get the builders and maintainers of these packages. And in addition, to insure the quality of these packages.

It might be necessary to repeat it, the main way to produce modules actually is thru USM. Which unless no one is competent and motivated to maintain, will be discarded. Brokenman has no more time to do it.

Bundles seemed an easier task. The problem is that very few have teared their shirt to become builders. You have to invest yourself. And you have to be competent.
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#20 by Falcony » 08 Jun 2017, 14:11

O, I see people who care :roll:
It might be necessary to repeat it, the main way to produce modules actually is thru USM. Which unless no one is competent and motivated to maintain, will be discarded. Brokenman has no more time to do it.


Let do not rely on Brokenman or Fanthom.

Each may contribute something that he anyway use in daily work. If he check and test - that it runs well - then it be well.
These could be assigned to some of the senior users, that already have a lot of knowledge for maintenance. 4 times a year (?) module update, if it does no require a new kernel to be loaded. Or maybe the kernel could be also maintained by a senior user.
It is details.

I send message to Brokenman - regarding uploading rights to porteus modules current directory.

Now let each select 5 top applications which he anyway use and may to support.
Let start from small step. 1-st small step - is half of big deal. :)

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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#21 by Bogomips » 08 Jun 2017, 17:58

^ Please see viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6703 and viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6711.

If you can help in testing, this will also be good: viewtopic.php?f=140&t=6966&sid=6e5cd3e4 ... 20b#p55562 :friends:
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#22 by ncmprhnsbl » 08 Jun 2017, 23:08

pmppinho wrote:Question? Can a bundle be done from six individual modules?
yes
one way:
1. simply extract each module (its in the right click menu of your file manager(make sure you use root fm))
2. merge these folders(fakeroots)(ie copy others into one)
3. then "Build Porteus Module" from the rightclick menu...

there are other ways including using the tools within usmgui...
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#23 by donald » 09 Jun 2017, 10:42

IMHO -- bundles repository --

Why all the fuss about bundles?
If i am able to build them via USM, everyone else should be able to do the same.
If not --> RTFM

Two exceptions -- a browser and e.g. nvidia drivers

If you want to build "bundles", do it in always fresh mode, including all
dependencies, so it will work as a stand alone program for everyone using
stock porteus.

But bear in mind that the number of dependencies / module size does vary,
depending on which DE is in use. ( GTK vs QT )

Given the case a user would want to use a KDE program in an XFCE environment,
it would pull in half of KDE --
do you really want to officially build / host such kind of modules?

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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#24 by donald » 09 Jun 2017, 12:52

@ pmppinho
My post wasn't addressed to you -- it is meant as a general IMHO
Sorry if you feel personally attacked, that was not intended.. :friends:

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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#25 by Ed_P » 09 Jun 2017, 15:10

pmppinho wrote:Personally, I find it easier to have a single module for every application and a single module for each dependency. Just because, if one things gets updated I can easily do one single update. Easier to maintain than breaking everything down, replace the file with the update and re-
The problem is knowing which module requires which dependency when it comes time to update a module and it has a new dependency which may impact other modules negatively. :Search:
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#26 by Bogomips » 09 Jun 2017, 16:15

pmppinho wrote:@bogomips

Yes, I can help in testing.
I did a conky module today and shared it through mediafire. It's linked on 64bits modules here in the forum. I know this not what we should be doing in the future with modules!
I did one module for conky and five more, one for each dependency.
Conky bundle has already been proferred here. Now there is no point in reinventing the wheel, which is why a well supported bundles project would do away with duplication.

Also there is no need to do five separate modules. If you can manage CLI, I have done a script to do this quite early on. This is for the case where you have to get packages (.txz) from all over the place for your module, not just usm: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3841&sid=255a7a00f ... 339#p27635
pmppinho wrote:Question? Can a bundle be done from six individual modules? I will look through the forum tomorrow for an answer, but if you could point me in the right direction, it would be great.
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4896&sid=255a7a00f ... d665f63339

If anything is unclear, ask under relevant topic, as we do not wish to hijack this present topic.
pmppinho wrote:I can also share the configuration file and a picture of how it looks.
Do you mean the usm config file? If so, you can set usm to not make modules of every package, but to make a bundle. Also you can ask usm to give the option of downloading packages to a folder. yes, if you wish to show the file open a topic like USM Usage in Newbie questions. It should prove useful.
pmppinho wrote:If USM stay, I can do more than testing.
If you wish to help by testing, I'll shortly be putting up a script in Tutorials section, which will aid users in selecting usm mirrors and hopefully improve download times, This should be noticeable when doing the usm mirrors update.

Another thing that you can do is to confirm this issue: viewtopic.php?f=117&t=3205&p=55773&sid= ... 810#p55767 and if confirmed try the fix for usm which I use to get packages when there is an issue of this sort or similar. Posted here: viewtopic.php?f=140&t=6966&sid=e1984010 ... 810#p55562
In this way we can let brokenman know that we can still get packages, and leave him in peace to sort out the sync issue at his own pace.

It's the small programs where usm shines. For instance needed to do something to check system time, in internet heard about program rdate. Search revealed appropriate package to download was openrdate, and usm could get it, some 80K only. Finding the mother package being the only difficulty.
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#27 by Ed_P » 10 Jun 2017, 04:56

Wow!! :shock:

:crazy:
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#28 by Ed_P » 11 Jun 2017, 05:33

So... what happened with pmppinho? :unknown:
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#29 by brokenman » 11 Jun 2017, 14:34

He deleted all his posts then I deleted him.

His name had a familiar ring to it.
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Re: General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#30 by Evan » 11 Jun 2017, 23:21

I can't remember his exact words but it was something along the lines of that he is not taking over threads and is pissed off?

He was told after a couple of his posts to start a separate topic so maybe he had the impression that he was not welcome to have an opinion rather than taking it as people trying to help him?

But that is just a guess. :unknown:

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