General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

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Evan
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General discussion : Porteus alternative package manager

Post#1 by Evan » 05 Jun 2017, 08:19

https://labix.org/smart/features
Smart has been developed with modularity and flexibility in mind. It's completely backend-based, and package-manager-agnostic. Support is currently implemented for RPM, DPKG, and Slackware package management systems, and porting it to new systems should be very easy.
Smart Package Manager anygood ?

Not sure if it needs python or if there is just an extra plugin for it , maybe Bogomips can have a look to see if he thinks it worth bothering with?

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Re: Using slapt-get as a package manager for Porteus

Post#2 by francois » 06 Jun 2017, 03:41

I have moved your comment on this general thread about package manager. It could be change to smart package manager only, if you mean to test the thing and report. Here are a few comment.

https://labix.org/smart
this is software offering better package management for these distributions when working with their native packages
Using multiple packaging systems at the same time (like rpm and dpkg) is possible but would require packages from those systems to follow the same packaging guidelines. As this is not the case at the moment, mixing package systems is not recommended.

Here is some comment on this package management, more pros than cons:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=115081.0

You ought to search for comments of other distributions.

There is no instructions for slackware. However here is the slackbuild 14,2 for smart:
https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/system/smart/

It would be nice that you test it and report. :)
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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#3 by Evan » 06 Jun 2017, 05:27

Just something i found at Google that claims to be slackware compatible when you asked about changing the package manager.

No need for a separate thread as i was just trying to help you , i didn't realize that i was meant to do in-depth research on it before giving a suggestion of what i found.

You can delete this thread if you like.

:good:

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#4 by Ed_P » 06 Jun 2017, 05:40

Evan wrote:i didn't realize that i was meant to do in-depth research on it before giving a suggestion of what i found.
No, but now that you have, now you do.

Looking forward to your findings. :Yahoo!:
Ed

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Re: Using slapt-get as a package manager for Porteus

Post#5 by Evan » 06 Jun 2017, 05:51

francois wrote:Here is some comment on this package management, more pros than cons:
http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=115081.0
This is what i found on my research , now francois can decide if to continue with Slapt-get or something else like Gslapt. :wink: :D

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#6 by Falcony » 06 Jun 2017, 06:09

That all unneeded. It is flowerless and buggy tools up there which made bad modules.
All that "slapts", arch packaging etc only makes messy and unworkable system for users.

Porteus needs policy for package contributes to OFFICIAL repository of packages(ftp, git) - stable and testing branches.
And maintainers of packages - OFFICLAL ones for each package - how care, test and upload its to OFFICIAL repository.

How organize this process and grant permission for conributors - tha's the right deal.

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#7 by Evan » 06 Jun 2017, 07:47

Joking aside I think we are in a no win situation...........
Bogomips wrote:one swallow does not a summer make. 8)
This -------------------------------^

It doesn't matter what package manager we use as we are still stuck with the outdated Slackware repository , look at the trouble an accomplished user like Bogomips had with conky or Fulas with the Mesa packages , and as Falcony said conversions from other repository like Arch is also trouble.

Even if Brokenman wanted to change base he is not going to have time.

:unknown:

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#8 by burdi01 » 06 Jun 2017, 09:06

... as we are still stuck with the outdated Slackware repository
Well, not when we would track Current ...

https://www.mesa3d.org/ : latest is 17.1.2
http://www.slackware.com/changelog/curr ... cpu=x86_64 : mesa 17.1.2

And Conky is not in the Slackware repositories ...
:D

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#9 by Evan » 06 Jun 2017, 09:18

Users like yourself that are happy with the repository against those that are not is another no win situation as you can't please everyone. :)

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#10 by Falcony » 06 Jun 2017, 14:18

Problem here is not in system base.

Slackware is good system - itself. If we do not need something more than Patrick approved. It has no systemd and cetera - other stupidity and buggy software.
Packages more stable then Arch Linux, etc. It is i586, not i686 - so it would run on old Pentium, etc. These is pluses. Minuses you know.

You could take Arch Linux as base - it doesn”t solve the users problems. As former Arch user I know many problem is in this system - and how it is buggy, if you need stable desktop with many apps.
System base is not important thing - if we have users who would like just use packages.

Look at Slax system, in all my admiration of TomasM, who done really great system - it was and is just a toy for him. See now what”s happen. Slax
4 years past - and no update.

Porteus repeated its errors - and now is time to say - that is stagnation.

Of course we have fanthom - who found nice marked share for his kiosk system.
Brokenman also done much. Neko do intersting and useful things - but one, two or three men - it is not army of developers.

Problem is in the human factor. Porteus team - during more then 7 years - even not do make plan and straight vision where to go and what to do. Development was very chaotic, some people do this, other - that and as result - mess and small popularity and less advanced users - who may contribute to the system something.

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#11 by Blaze » 06 Jun 2017, 19:54

Need developers (more than one) and a good donations (for example ads of Google Adsense on the forum - will gives a good money for it).
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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#12 by francois » 06 Jun 2017, 21:17

@blaze:
Regular input of money might help us to keep brokenman, but also to interest other developpers.

@falcony:
Not so sure that all the efforts of porteus were so anarchic considering the small membership of this distribution and the presence of two and now only one developper. A reflexion on frugal install was open to discussion, with the frugal install a discussion on package management went on and brought brokenman to usm, not to mention hamza à la carte isos of porteus.

We realized the limitation of a small community in developping faq, when other bigger communities were already doing a great job about documentation (why would one reinvent the wheel), its there arch linux, ubuntu. But this is another subject.

slapt-get might not be not that bad. And this is a recent suggestion from brokenman. In addition, there is slapt-src (for building from source) It is used currently by salixos:
http://guide.salixos.org/31PackageManagement.html

@all:
In command line there is slackyd, which was much used before the introduction of usm. Other package manager models have been reviewed, and brokenman modified usm accordingly. But these could be revised once more.

Maybe we should test extensively the development of neko base on arch linux and debian. And thus contribute to their development.
archlinux.
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4997
Debian (stopped in 2016)
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php ... n&start=45

Bogomips has done some job too in terms of package management.

The nemesis experiment was also quite interesting with essentially the package wrapper developped by brokenman. Though he had put much effort in polishing the product in an effort to bring it to the level of porteus slackware. ncmprhnsbl has done some notable efforts to keep nemesis up to date.
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=6484

Alien bob has a full slackware live cd. Maybe we can pick up some of its already made packages and dependencies and contribute activily to support its developement by testing it and incorporating these packages for porteus.

As brokenman noted: what happened to the bundle project?

There are problems, but with well defined problems, you get quite near the solutions.
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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#13 by francois » 07 Jun 2017, 01:53

It would be interesting that as much neko and other users give their impressions and summary of where these projects stands according to their practical knowledge of these projects.

Updated last post with pertinent links.
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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#14 by Falcony » 07 Jun 2017, 06:02

francois wrote: Updated last post with pertinent links.
All listed aren't guarantee workable packages to users. Conversion lead to problem, u know. Only two ways could produce proper modules for porteus - and you know what they are: slackbuilds builded on porteus or pkg2src.

But again - it is not matter.
francois wrote: Maybe we should test extensively the development of neko base on arch linux and debian. And thus contribute to their development.
archlinux.
Switching to Arch Linux base doesn't not solve users problems. Again - it is anarchic and no suit to novice.

When user come to porteus or any other linux he needs working distribution which help him to do his tasks. And what porteus provide to him? System base is good and nice - but it is not enough. And if it even be arch at base - it be the same. Lego constructor with broken details.

Advanced users could make from porteus good system, but novice are not. So they skip this distribution and select another.

Again, if you do not know where to go you will go nowhere. Any project - no matter - software or not - have to set target. Does porteus team have target? No. Even i no see here the team - there are group of individuals which do chaotic work, they creates software modules - upload to mediafire or other file sharing - but it is the mess.
Really it is not way to do something useful. It is broken Lego way.

Currently brokenman produce lemon. It is good lemon but it is lemon. But you may do from lemon lemonade. It is quit easy. The only one thing to need - is target, team and clear date. There should be organization of working process - even simple one - to have synergy effect.

There are about 8-12 advanced users who may work together.
U may have synergy effect - and produce good system finally.
Just come together - create new topic, invite advanced users, set clear target what you are going to reach.
What it is, workable desktop? Then set the date - for ex. 1-st october 2017.
Select one DE - for which all team select. This DE have to be polished for usage by novice users. Then split tasks by groups - 1-st users let produce and test ONLY office software, 2-nd - OTHER group software, etc...

Assign by 5 packages to each advanced users - it will give you filially more then 50 modules. Useful and tested. Not bad one. Push it to brockenman iso's. Upload this new and fresh 2 images with your moduled to dl.porteus.org - then announce to news - and that will be deal.

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Re: General discussion on alternative package manager for Po

Post#15 by n0ctilucient » 07 Jun 2017, 12:45

Falcony... are you saying the site/forum needs a roadmap section?

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