Linux Trivia

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sean
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Linux Trivia

Post#1 by sean » 30 Mar 2016, 18:33

Fellow Porteui,

First I'd like to apologize for not continuing the dialog on the Thread/Topic -General chat/30 miles from home and off the wall. Issues at the mentioned nursing home site are out of my control presently, the computer has been removed. I'm very frustrated, trying to do good, with stop signs at every turn. I will continue as soon, and if possible, that may be never. I hope for the better. (this is a real sore point for me, as I have not been able to use any suggestions made here, and the point of contention is out of my reach, I apologize)

A thought came to mind recently about this Linux Desktop subject. The topic of the Linux Desktop has been tossed around now for well on to 12 to 15, or 16 years, perhaps more.

So I thought I'd divulge my own personal experience with Linux. Of course I have no dillusions that it would put the Linux Desktop issue to rest, finally. However, in the end, my own personal conclussion counts the most, to me, of course :-) And I will give it there.

In 2004 I was using IBM's OS/2 operating system, for reasons that would waste your precious time reading. But OS/2 was a Cadillac of an Operating System. IBM however decided to stop supporting it, and since I never used Windows, I looked to Linux as an alternative OS. I had installed and tried Mandrake and Red Hat around 2000. Found them both great with the CLI, but severly lacking with the GUI. I did, however, continue to watch Linux and it's "Desktops", then Gnome and KDE, very closely.

Now I can't remember exactly how I became aware of it, or why I decided to try it but sometime around 2004 I heard about Novell Susie Enterprise Linux being available for $50 (fifty United States dollars). I had been "online" (internet connected, very slow) for only a short time then (I'm way out in the Boonie's away from the cities), but was able to find some US telephone numbers to call in order to purchase Novell Susie Linux Enterprise edition (#9.?) as I remember. Being a long time ago, I can not say for sure how much time I spent on the telephone, but it was considerable!

At home here somewhere, on an old harddrive, are the exact answers, but I'll try to hit the important points without going to that trouble. After much frustration calling Novell about this Linux product they were then advertising on the internet, and finding no person with any knowledge about how a person could make the purchase, I reached the head of all marketing for Novell. This took a couple of days.

To my surprise, I mean Novell had just purchased "Susie Linux" and were hoping to make something of it, this top director of marketing for Novell totally understood my problem/frustration in obtaining Novell Enterprise Linux 9. I was told he himself was experiencing the identical problems within Novell as to the exact process for a customer to physically purchase the product. We discussed our mutual difficulties and made way for easier communication with one another, I having expressed a willingness for patience and my own assistance, however usefull.

(I had finished this piece, then felt the need to express my total *&$%#@* frustration with why a company would R&D a product, manufacture it, advertise it, and yet provide absolutely now avenue for a customer to make the purchase.)

After several weeks time Novell snail-mailed me a CD with their Susie Linux Enterprise 9 and I was able to install it on an old Dell Optiplex GS-260 (which is running today al biet sans-Susie/Novell Linux).

Well, I couldn't believe what was before me. Here was everything I thought I'd ever need, and it was all running beautifully. I called my new friend and head of marketing at Novell and told him of my satisfaction, and how wonderful I found Susie Linux to be. Of course he loved hearing all I said. Then I questioned Novell's marketing of this fine product, like where was the marketing? There was very little of it, and still no easy way for a novice to purchase it. His hands were surely tied, easily "seen" even via audio telephone conversation.

Our communication was lost a year later when this entire process was repeated in trying to update/upgrade to Novell Susie Linux Enterprise 10, still $50. And I found a new director of marketing, I went pretty much through the same frustrations and eventually received the product. One of those fella's, can't remember which, sent a box of goodies to my home, CD's of the system for installation, a T-shirt, and a couple of other marketing handouts. That was very nice and appreciated.

I may be old and naive, but when the bottom line is drawn, a desktop is simply " a super menu", from an old-timers point of view. I'd be willing to bet that a DOS menu could be created to the same effect we expect from today's "Desktop editions" of any operating system. KISS

My conclusions are these;

(1) Marketing is a "KEY". IBM failed to market OS/2, Novell failed to market Susie Linux Enterprise. If one were to go back and look at the first Novell Susie Linux Enterprise 9, and then look at the very first Ubuntu (2005 or so?), they would see an extremely similar product. Novell "Susie" did not lose to Mandrake, Slackware, Debian, or Red Hat. Novell Susie sat on it's bum and lost to Canonical/Ubuntu !!!!!

(2) In 2004 Susie Linux had a complete desktop for Linux. It did everything asked of it.


The Linux desktop is not coming anytime soon, it's already been here for years, 10, 12, 15 at least!!!!!!!!!!! (How can something arrive that is already here?!)

And that's how I got started with Linux. And now I thank goodness for Porteus Linux!

Sean
(not a Guru)

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#2 by Bogomips » 30 Mar 2016, 20:20

sean wrote:Novell failed to market Susie Linux Enterprise
Perhaps for reasons best known to themselves, there was no incentive to market it. :twisted:
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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#3 by brokenman » 31 Mar 2016, 01:41

Linux has, quite sadly, always failed in the desktop arena in comparison to the alternatives.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#4 by wread » 02 Apr 2016, 19:19

...because you cannot make a virus-business out of it....!
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
The Porteus Community never sleeps!

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#5 by brokenman » 02 Apr 2016, 22:27

Of course that's not the reason. Computer virii, like biological virii follow the population. If there were enough people using it, the virii would follow.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#6 by Tonio » 03 Apr 2016, 02:46

There could be a number of reasons. It may be because the sun shines more to Micro$oft's favor :) Or other reasons? Like why is the world at war? Because War is a business :) IMHO Wread is right and also Brokenman! However, if something is not what it would like to be, it is because many people like it that way! But vulnerabilities are found, hackers find things to hit. Luckily they do not hit Linux that much, if very few people hit it it is great! I like it that way, if they start to hit it, then we have to search for something that they won't hit, ie, BSDs like OPENBSD, NetBSD, or FreeBSD. All the years since 2000 have been the
Year of Linux on the Desktop
, but Linux is just a kernel and the desktops are KDE, GNOME, XFCE, ICEWM, FLUXBOX, OPENBOX, CINAMMON, etc, you get the idea :) Let us keep our great OS off their grids(hackers, malware writers, virii companies who want to milk people off their hard earned money, the governments of the world already take away money from their slave workers, and tax them to death.) We do not need to $hell out money to virii companies to protect our ``Desktops'' running on Linux kernels :)

@All following the thread, please do not get offended, but are we not glad that ``bad people'' stay away from Linux and other open source projects and hit Micro$oft and Apple more? As Wread states, there is not much money to be made from us poor dudes running open source desktops and not run virii software to protect our desktops?

fullmoonremix

Re: Linux Trivia

Post#7 by fullmoonremix » 03 Apr 2016, 05:13

Salutations... :good:

IMHO... :oops: Windozzz ship has sailed which is why they want to hide in the "Cloud".
The Android (Linux) > 66% market share has already settled the issue for them and Apple.

nVidia is already partnering w/ Google on tablets so things are going to really heat up soon.

Intel and Redmond for years hoodwinked u$ers into drinking KoolAid ("the u$er needs a cluster to print a letter").
Linux makes it possible for kids using Raspberry Pi to MAKE a cluster to print a prosthetic limb w/ Makerbot.

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#8 by donald » 03 Apr 2016, 05:40

Well said Tonio
And do not forget that windows is preinstalled on almost every pc one can buy.
The "average joe" use it "as is", lets say 3 to 4 years, catching loads of bullshit
while the pc will work slower and slower.
And because the pc is soo slow, guess what, they buy a new one...
because they do not even know how to (re) install an OS.
(seen this many times)
Year of Linux on the Desktop
Don't get me wrong, but..
The real Linux geeks just don't care about users.
I, personally, as a Linux "geek", just don't give a s**t about someone using it or not.
I'm happy when someone does NOT use it and I don't have to hear his whining.
Linux does not depend on profit. It will remain long time after Windows has long gone dead.

fullmoonremix

Re: Linux Trivia

Post#9 by fullmoonremix » 03 Apr 2016, 05:53

Salutations... :good:
The real Linux geeks just don't care about users.
Not so fast... :no: Linux is a "community" (ALL members are "users" even devs) that stand on the shoulders of giants.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallmans-law.html

If what you claim was true Linux would NOT exist and therefore this forum and your commentary.
Geekyness is NOT just making hammers (coding) it's also building houses to live in (using).

One is moot w/out the other.

IMHO... :oops: the whining stopped when Android was created years ago.
Now anyone (even grandma) can be a Linux geek w/ a $100 pharmacy chain store tablet pc or smart phone handset.

I switched from Android to Porteus because I wanted to escape from (root) jail.
(Again...) we can laugh in the dark OR simply turn on the light.

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#10 by donald » 03 Apr 2016, 07:37

agreed...but only 50%
explanation:
MS has a bunch of programmers being paid to program for users / customers.
Linux:
If one is coding something, it will be done because (he/she) needs it.
The coder will know how to use it...will he care about a user friendly GUI?
maybe, maybe not, maybe someone else will pick up this piece of code and build
additional goodies, or not.
So some linux "geeks" simply code for themself, probably share it, but don't care
about users...

And as I said, I am happy that almost anyone uses windows..
So i can use Linux in Peace.

fullmoonremix

Re: Linux Trivia

Post#11 by fullmoonremix » 03 Apr 2016, 08:21

Salutations... :good:

Out of context... so no agreement exists. Hence "clarification".
Coding for coders? Seriously? That is NOT Stallman's vision.

That's like hammers for hammer manufacturers.
That means... the house is built by the tool maker NOT the craftsman.

I would never buy a plane made by a pilot or book a flight flown by an engineer.
Coding for yourself is a "closed source" mentality so you are NOT describing the Linux "community".

You can do it as a hobby if your goal is academic "proof of concept".
However... if you go pro you face a GPL lawsuit if you use it with FOSS.

Again... you cannot coherently take the "end user" (even oneself... if the application/interface is ""unfriendly" to it's creator) out of the equation and still have one.

Best Regards,,, :beer:

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#12 by donald » 03 Apr 2016, 08:55

Coding for coders? Seriously?
what else?...,various parts of code...who will put them together...a user?
At the end it might be useful for users...or not.
Coding for yourself is closed source
nonsense
I'm free to publish the code so anyone can use it without restrictions

Now I can no longer take you seriously
I support your right to free speech.
Respect my right not to be forced to listen to it.
Have a nice day.

fullmoonremix

Re: Linux Trivia

Post#13 by fullmoonremix » 03 Apr 2016, 09:18

Salutations... :good:
what else?...,various parts of code...who will put them together...a user?
Code minus "end user" equals... " Proof of concept ".
I'm free to publish the code so anyone can use it without restrictions
Lawsuits are NOT free. This is why Remond considers GPL a virus. (see... Viral license ) Your license would be permissive not GPL if it's all about you and not the user.

LInux has a "community". Microsoft has "customers". One "user" philosophy is based on sharing the other exploitation and greed (aka selfishness).

If it's all about the service and screw the user ("community") that IS Microsoft's (Monsanto?) philosophy. (see... Planned obsolescence )
If you are hostile to the idea of "community" which is comprised of "users" (devs ARE also users) then you should NOT join one cause anything else is... Elitism
Now I can no longer take you seriously
You never have nor will... because that requires an open mind. In any case... an open mind listens to the message NOT the messenger. I quote my references NOT myself. (see... Shooting the messenger )
I support your right to free speech.
You confuse free thought with free speech. Anyone can speak... thinking takes more effort. Again... I quote my references NOT myself. (see... Freethought ) I prefer dialogue over dogma.
Respect my right not to be forced to listen to it.
You confuse disagreement with disrepect. I personally believe that no one should EVER force anyone to have an open mind because that is their parents job. (see... Skepticism )

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#14 by Tonio » 03 Apr 2016, 16:53

@Donald & Fullmoonremix

Both of you make great points and some points can be discussed and beaten to death like a dead horse. Linux development is a mixed bag, there is for profit (Red Hat, OpenSuSe Enterprise, Oracle Hardened Linux, and also the Android Market), they are for profit. Not everyone likes them, that is why some governments look to building their own in house tools. Take Russia for example, they do not want backdoors by NSA and other govts. to spy on their citizens or their people http://www.zdnet.com/article/russia-mob ... agment_=#!. They build their own phones and Operating systems, If i am not mistaken Venezuela, North Korea may have some of their own. And there are some people who do give away their operating system for free and with no strings attached(which are the true open source systems), while GPL has very good things, it also restricts somethings which developers do not like. One point made about Micro$oft(Redmond) and GPL, they Microsoft write drivers for linux using that same "Viral license", they Micro$oft people using Linux also,
http://news.microsoft.com/2009/07/20/mi ... community/
Why are they doing it? or why did they do it?
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Microsoft- ... el?share=1
http://www.cnet.com/news/microsofts-lin ... agment_=#!

The IP Stacks and internet were mostly BSD code that they M$ use but the BSD Code is not as restrictive as the GPL and they do not have to give back(code) to the BSD folks. At one point, I tried to become a "Free Software Evangelist", but that does not work, people should decide on their own if they want to use Linux or not, it is much harder for people to use Linux based OSes since the M$ windows comes preinstalled on their machines[when they go to a store and buy em, unless they want machines prebuilt with Linux on them, or make your own], and not many are inclined or know about a better system. They do know about Android because it runs most Smartphones and they are taking a huge percentage away from Apple and their iphones, still malware folks target Android to bring it down, virii exist for it and they are likely to hit/target it since more people are using it. Some people prefer to be low profile and stay away from the limelight :) Also about the licenses, if a developer wants to release his/her code "free without strings attached" true open source and nonGPL, they can do so, but if they use parts that are GPL they cannot do that, so both of you are right. IANAL(I am not a Lawyer), but one has to be careful with these licenses. Check the opensource page out for more information:
https://opensource.org/
I have been involved in many discussions online through the years and these topics like religion and politics one should not discuss[if we do not want to make enemies :) ] I have made my fair share of friends and enemies because one believes in something, while other people believe in other things. For me Richard Stallman is a big guy, but the true opensource pioneer is Donald E. Knuth, you can see this page to read up more about this:

http://linux.topology.org/lingl.html

Best regards to all!

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Re: Linux Trivia

Post#15 by Ed_P » 03 Apr 2016, 17:36

fullmoonremix wrote:Posted by 73.150.85.78 via http://webwarper.net
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