is there any repository for Porteus system?

New features which should be implemented in Porteus; suggestions are welcome. All questions or problems with testing releases (alpha, beta, or rc) should go in their relevant thread here, rather than the Bug Reports section.
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is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#1 by port » 09 Mar 2016, 17:33

I'm wondering if there's some sources repository for porteus system building scripts, maybe github, bitbucket, sourceforge...

I was searching in forum but the most similar I've found is Sitwon's Porteus repository on github but I don't know how 'official' it is.

What I look for is scripts used to build a porteus system, what means basically scripts in porteus-scripts folder, boot scripts in /boot (porteus.cfg, syslinux, porteus-installer-* ...) and scripts for build the iso and maybe building the base common modules (000-kernel.xzm, 001-core.xzm, etc)

The idea is to checkout the repository and use the scripts to gather all packages needed to make a porteus system and then make an iso to burn or copy to cd/usb media. This way you can tweak and hack whatever you want to make your slighty different porteus system or maybe a new one porteus based system.

Also a great advantage is all ideas and upgrades to scripts may shared in a common repository allowing current developers to accept proposal changes or not as you can maintaid your own local repository and merge your local changes to official repository only if allowed being your changes approved by current developers (bronkenman and fanthorn, I assume)

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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#2 by brokenman » 10 Mar 2016, 01:22

I have been thinking about creating this but the reality is that Porteus is not simply a set of scripts you can run and Porteus pops out at the end. It would be possible to create such scripts but without uploading the gigabyte+ of source files it would require a fair bit of work. The idea would be a set of scripts on github that could be run on a local machine. The scripts would download the required slackware files and create modules from them. The problem is that MANY of the packages are compiled locally and are not simply pulled from slackware. Then there is the kernel stuff that I really wouldn't trust a script to do. So it is no doubt possible, but would require a great deal of work on my end. Work=time which I seem to be running very short on these days.
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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#3 by port » 10 Mar 2016, 11:10

brokenman wrote:The idea would be a set of scripts on github that could be run on a local machine. The scripts would download the required slackware files and create modules from them.
yes, that's the idea I pretend to suggest in my previous message. It would be great.
brokenman wrote:The problem is that MANY of the packages are compiled locally and are not simply pulled from slackware.
but I'm not really interested in packages compiled because the selection and build of packages is a task for builder. Sure it must be a common base of packages which makes porteus base system but all the rest is "plug&play" ;)

I think doing this way you can simplify porteus building process and maintenance, core developers may concentrate in building and improving a little set of packages in core base system (think of a couple of modules like 000-core and 001-kernel) and even if you have to manually download & build all packages in those modules it will be easier not to worry about all the rest and also you can delegate to other users (a core team) the maitenance of other modules not in core but very demanded or important and considered part of the base porteus system and also having other users maintaining and building modules as they want, surely most famous modules will get great demand and eventually become part of base porteus if they pass porteus core developers criteria in terms of quality, maintenance level, karma...

What I'm proposing is a ring system where the core ring 0 is porteus core developers (brokenman and fanthorn) using their limited time in maintaining core modules and improving core system without worry about any other issues, a ring 1 of core team developers where experienced developers in which core developers trust maintain a number importante modules and ring 2 .. N of indiviual developers more or less exprienced which maintain a limited set of modules they want or like and public them out in modules repository. This way you have a path of progress in order to achieve experience in porteus system and go down the rings if you want (not needed!).

This way you can evolve and improve porteus without wasting time and people interested even newbies can play for fun and make its own version of porteus if they want or learning to become a porteus expert maintainer.
brokenman wrote:Then there is the kernel stuff that I really wouldn't trust a script to do. So it is no doubt possible, but would require a great deal of work on my end. Work=time which I seem to be running very short on these days.
with kernel stuff what do you mean? parametrizing kernel? looking for and customizing modules? I think the kernel configuration is scriptable at high level but I understand your reservation. In any case the idea is you can be free for kernet stuff and core packages and forget about kde, gimp or libreoffice packages because somebody is maintaing this, for you is just a matter of including the module in some stage of building proteus iso.

Of course I'm ready to help ;-)

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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#4 by brokenman » 11 Mar 2016, 02:17

but I'm not really interested in packages compiled because the selection and build of packages is a task for builder.
Well not really, some of packages are fundamental core packages. By that I mean without some of these compiled packages Porteus would not functions as porteus.

I like the ring system idea, but the fact is that we simply do not have the man power to do it. I wish we did.

By the kernel I mean patching, compiling and then building the 000-kernel.xzm module which is a module of drivers and firmware for the kernel.

Another thing to think about is how one becomes a part of a maintenance team. We have seen many people come and go, and in the end we gave up showing people the ropes. If someone really wants to help they will begin doing their thing and not stop. Take Neko for example. He started the initiative of a kernel upgrade system. It is consistent and of good quality. I keep an eye on these things and if it continues I would be very happy to ask Neko to take over the kernel creation. It takes me about 30 minutes to build a new kernel so no biggy, but it would be nice to hand it off to someone else I can trust.
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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#5 by port » 11 Mar 2016, 10:08

brokenman wrote: Another thing to think about is how one becomes a part of a maintenance team. We have seen many people come and go, and in the end we gave up showing people the ropes. If someone really wants to help they will begin doing their thing and not stop. Take Neko for example. He started the initiative of a kernel upgrade system. It is consistent and of good quality. I keep an eye on these things and if it continues I would be very happy to ask Neko to take over the kernel creation. It takes me about 30 minutes to build a new kernel so no biggy, but it would be nice to hand it off to someone else I can trust.
That's the point. What I mean with the ring system is you will trust on people who simply does the job and is there to maintain in. As you said we have not enough man-power but for that reason we must increase it some way and giving a path to help and progress in one way that can work, obviously it's up to anybody to join or not to join, to do or not to do but I think we need giving people a chance to spread the tasks and implication, to create community.

The way I see it is we need critical mass to create a sustainable community and also while getting big we need to free core developers (you both) from boring tasks, easy tasks, etc to concentrate on essential tasks (let's say 000-kenel.xzm, system scripts and improving it all), at the same time I see in the forum quite people willing to help and experienced people or at least with technical skills so the challenge is to involve that people step by step.

What I want is not burn up you both to the point of abandoning this great project due to tiredness and also you and those involved could have time to creative work improving porteus.

Also would want that all people interested in helping and being involved have a way to do it.

Anyway I agree with you when you say if you want to help just do it so as I have a couple of ideas I want to test and improve, enough words! ;-)

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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#6 by Ed_P » 11 Mar 2016, 19:32

It's not that easy port.

1. For starters there is only one admin for Porteus at this point, brokenman, not two.

2. Including people takes more work than simply appointing them to positions, like moderators. Just because someone is talented Linuxwise and friendly and has some time does not mean they will be a good moderator or developer for Porteus. People need direction and training and that can take time.

3. What made Porteus special for me was it worked on my netbook, and then my wife's. Video, GUI, wi-fi, harddrive, browser, it was a quick download, and had extremely helpful admins and mods to assist a newbie Linux user. And it even fit on my old USB drive!!

What has happened is, in addition to reduced manpower, the newer releases don't work on my hardware. 3.1 wouldn't support suspend mode on my netbook so I was instructed to use 3.1 with the kernel from 3.0.1. Even neko's kernel haven't help. The Arch versions struggled also, video, GUI, wi-fi. It became worst when I got a new 13.3" notetbook for Christmas. None of the Porteus versions worked on it. I eventually returned that notebook but I suspect similar problems with whatever new one I get.

The key to Porteus IMO is support for more hardware, especially newer hardware, which means more kernel support in adding drivers. The majority of users want one thing initially, a system that boots to a GUI on their equipment. If it doesn't do that they will kiss Porteus goodbye and try something else. Once it boots then forum support is the key. With those two things in place Porteus will have a long life. Without it, the future looks dim. :(

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#7 by port » 11 Mar 2016, 23:45

I see, I agree with your 3 points but talking about the third when you say...
Ed_P wrote: What has happened is, in addition to reduced manpower, the newer releases don't work on my hardware. 3.1 wouldn't support suspend mode on my netbook so I was instructed to use 3.1 with the kernel from 3.0.1. Even neko's kernel haven't help. The Arch versions struggled also, video, GUI, wi-fi. It became worst when I got a new 13.3" notetbook for Christmas. None of the Porteus versions worked on it. I eventually returned that notebook but I suspect similar problems with whatever new one I get.

The key to Porteus IMO is support for more hardware, especially newer hardware, which means more kernel support in adding drivers. The majority of users want one thing initially, a system that boots to a GUI on their equipment. If it doesn't do that they will kiss Porteus goodbye and try something else. Once it boots then forum support is the key. With those two things in place Porteus will have a long life. Without it, the future looks dim. :(
I simply cannot believe having a kernel reasonably supporting new hardware were that hard. Don't misunderstand me I don't want to minusvalorate in any way the great work of brokenman and I know how much you have to tweak a kernel, do the right choices of modules and packages and adjust all that to work coordinately, but you really have linux kernels tested in new machines and they're already working, maybe the suboptimal solution is to go for a generic kernel as most distros do, just a matter of bundle all the pieces together with no further optimization if what people want the most is broad use in actual or new hardware rather than performance, of course that won't be the great porteus system we know and like but something slighty different.

There're ways to build an entire system almost with no effort, building it up for nothing i.e. building a live system from an installed system (woof), from standard packages (debian live), etc if the most desired feature is compatibility then you can make a porteus in a similar way, let's say "standard porteus" and evolve real porteus in a slower pace. Don't really know real implications, just speaking loudly ;-)

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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#8 by ralcocer » 31 Mar 2016, 18:08

brokenman wrote:I have been thinking about creating this but the reality is that Porteus is not simply a set of scripts you can run and Porteus pops out at the end. It would be possible to create such scripts but without uploading the gigabyte+ of source files it would require a fair bit of work. The idea would be a set of scripts on github that could be run on a local machine. The scripts would download the required Slackware files and create modules from them. The problem is that MANY of the packages are compiled locally and are not simply pulled from Slackware. Then there is the kernel stuff that I really wouldn't trust a script to do. So it is no doubt possible, but would require a great deal of work on my end. Work=time which I seem to be running very short on these days.
I am in the finishing stages of making a Porteus Distro using just two scripts, it's as modified script from Slax but only uses Slackware and my Kernel 3.10.17 module with aufs which by the way is the same as the Slackware 14.1 I have. I am running it right now in Qemu., I am now going to try to get the USM working and the activate stuff.
BTW: is there a script to create the necessary files to make a repository that can be read by USM.

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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#9 by brokenman » 01 Apr 2016, 01:46

I am in the finishing stages of making a Porteus Distro using just two scripts
Using the slackware-current DVD and two scripts I don't see how this is possible. Have you seen the packages in Porteus that don't ship with slackware? Does this script create 4 desktop environments? There are certain packages that need to be compiled before QT has bee installed, and others after. Same with gtk2 and gtk3. Maybe it resembles a slackware live distro with modularity, but it won't be the same as what we ship. In any case I will be first in line to take a look.

Regarding the kernel. The kernel included in the latest release adds all the missing firmware from the extra-firmware package in Porteus. It is 20Mb heavier than the previous porteus versions but it should cover most all cases. It's not so much the kernel you need to worry about but the firmware module 000-kernel that includes most of the extra stuff.
is there a script to create the necessary files to make a repository that can be read by USM.
Yes I believe Alien Bob has such a script. Porteus USM can read any repository that is created in the standard slackare way. That is to say, it must include a ChangeLog.txt, MANIFEST, PACKAGES.TXT file etc.
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Re: is there any repository for Porteus system?

Post#10 by wread » 02 Apr 2016, 19:33

A while ago I used to upload my Porteus compiles to wread.porteus.org, but that was unofficial, and one day the subdomain dissapeared....I haven't share any more modules since :cry:
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