The future of Porteus

New features which should be implemented in Porteus; suggestions are welcome. All questions or problems with testing releases (alpha, beta, or rc) should go in their relevant thread here, rather than the Bug Reports section.
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francois
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#76 by francois » 11 Nov 2015, 01:50

@bogomips:
Some offer from brokenman for coding I presume:
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=5088
Anyone interested in helping develop and maintain (you must have the ability to investigate problems and offer solutions) should contact me.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#77 by Hamza » 11 Nov 2015, 02:34

I wasn't happy to use systemd when I had to switch over on my servers but I had to use it. Most recents software are using now.

That's like Windows Vista when we had to switch over from Windows XP... oh bad example... :oops:
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#78 by wread » 11 Nov 2015, 02:38

Sorry, hamza, but that is not a valid answer!
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#79 by phhpro » 11 Nov 2015, 03:54

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Last edited by phhpro on 04 Feb 2016, 03:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#80 by francois » 11 Nov 2015, 04:40

We can conclude that you are not a systemd fan. :wink:

I am not sure that you have read all the writings of brokenman about systemd. But I will let the man speak for himself. 8)

This could please the anti systemd group: openrc for arch:
http://systemd-free.org/index.php
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#81 by Bogomips » 11 Nov 2015, 12:29

francois wrote:@bogomips:
Some offer from brokenman for coding I presume:
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=5088
Anyone interested in helping develop and maintain (you must have the ability to investigate problems and offer solutions) should contact me.
:wink:
@francois
KnallKopf is interested. But link leads to Nemesis :twisted:
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#82 by francois » 11 Nov 2015, 12:59

Knallkopf seems to be giving a try to nemesis. Usually one is in a better position to criticize when he has the experience of with the thing.

Though I understand that one could refrain to do something based on values only. And here the fear of loosing diversity in terms of system availability seems an important one.

Most of us are against climatic changes but still use cars or planes.

What are the main issue here: loosing the maintainer and porteus, being a marginal distribution that will always have difficulty building a critic mass of users and collaborators. It might be worth having a try with arch Linux.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#83 by Tonio » 11 Nov 2015, 23:30

IMHO, if the project incorporates the systemd code it will go way of the dodo bird. :cry:
Yes time is a factor, and because of it and fanthom's going away to concentrate his effors in kiosk edition, the regular porteus will be left to rot :wink: For those that complain that slackware releases are not often, they(Slackware team, Patrick V, Eric H, Robby W, etc) don't release just for the sake of releasing, the distribution is tested, I run slackware-current, when testing goes well, they release an rc then all is well and working a new release is announced. They are not in the Ubuntu's, Arch's, Fedora, OpenSuse, ... other distros that just release and follow timelines. Packages are pristine like the original developer wanted. I have run many distros, but prefer Slackware and found out about it from using Slax. I then downloaded it and well here we are. Either way if systemd and changing base distro is coming, some users will just leave :oops: and not look back. It was great while it lasted. It would be nice that fanthom considers releasing his live cd scripts so that the project leave on and we the users can continue in some way :wall: But setup a nice one such that it is not cryptic like Tomas' live scripts which are not understood by mere mortals like us :( Just something that can be run with examples if possible. Thanks to all for the memories. Porteus has come a long way, but may die off and succumb so sad that it has to be this way. I am not encouraged by looking at Arch and other projects that have succumbed to that * well you know. Luckily we still have other distros like Slackel, Salix, and Austrumi which are Slackware based too. Although Porteus was/is a little bit nicer in many ways, but if we can't have our great distro that we have, then we have to look somewhere else. I apologize for writing this, but honesty is the best policy.

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#84 by Tonio » 11 Nov 2015, 23:39

francois wrote: Most of us are against climatic changes but still use cars or planes.

What are the main issue here: loosing the maintainer and porteus, being a marginal distribution that will always have difficulty building a critic mass of users and collaborators. It might be worth having a try with arch Linux.
We cannot complain about the weather it is what it is. Cars and planes and all use energy, but that does not cause global warming. That is BS!
Our issue is that we have already lost a developer(Fanthom) and it will be hard for one person only (Brokenman) to maintain Porteus as it is with 8 versions, several desktops and you know. I do not think that Arch is worth a try, I have tested many distributions and do not find anything interesting about it not my cup of tea! :no: I am sorry to say, but many users will not use porteus anymore if it rebases into Arch. :evil: :(
If official Slackware succumbs to systemd :shock: , well then you can say that it was coming, but till that time comes Slackware based distros is what I look to. :Yahoo!:

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#85 by phhpro » 12 Nov 2015, 01:03

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#86 by brokenman » 12 Nov 2015, 01:14

the regular porteus will be left to rot
Thanks for your honesty Tonio. I vehemently disagree though. I too have run slackware for many many years. Tried various different flavours of linux but have always come back to slackware. For me it is rock solid stable. If I need a package I compile it. Herein lies a major issue. You have to admit that slackware has a relatively small application choice compared to other distros. In fact a much smaller choice. For a newcomer, compiling a package is not on the cards. I understand slackware is conservative with releases. Fair enough, but the conservativeness is growing more and more.

Many will leave, many will come. Over the years we have already seen that happen. I don't see how you can ascertain that Porteus will die just because of a base change. I can say with certainty that many have left principally BECAUSE the base was slackware and they couldn't get the application they wanted to run on Porteus. If the 'slackware' part is so important, why don't users just install slackware? I believe it is because of the layout and structure of Porteus. The modular concept, ease of use and speed is what draws people.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#87 by Tonio » 12 Nov 2015, 02:24

brokenman wrote:
the regular porteus will be left to rot
Thanks for your honesty Tonio. I vehemently disagree though. I too have run slackware for many many years. Tried various different flavours of linux but have always come back to slackware. For me it is rock solid stable. If I need a package I compile it. Herein lies a major issue. You have to admit that slackware has a relatively small application choice compared to other distros. In fact a much smaller choice. For a newcomer, compiling a package is not on the cards. I understand slackware is conservative with releases. Fair enough, but the conservativeness is growing more and more.

Many will leave, many will come. Over the years we have already seen that happen. I don't see how you can ascertain that Porteus will die just because of a base change. I can say with certainty that many have left principally BECAUSE the base was slackware and they couldn't get the application they wanted to run on Porteus. If the 'slackware' part is so important, why don't users just install slackware? I believe it is because of the layout and structure of Porteus. The modular concept, ease of use and speed is what draws people.
I understand your points, but to be quite honest I will answer as best I can.

Slackware is important. It is simplistic, I really like it I have 3+ machines running it.

Code: Select all

bash-4.3$ cat /etc/slackware-version 
Slackware 14.1
bash-4.3$ uname -a
Linux toshiba 4.1.12-smp #2 SMP Wed Oct 28 18:25:31 CDT 2015 i686 Genuine Intel(R) CPU           T2080  @ 1.73GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
bash-4.3$
The part that is being lost is the porteus that has a slackware base and we can use to rescue/see/view/troubleshoot pcs throughout. We have a porteus as we had our Slax it was our POCKET OS. We could run it anywhere, i486, x86_64. Packages were not problem at least for me. I waited for years to achieve a livecd with a custom tex and I was able to achieve it with Porteus and later also with Slax. I had tried multiple times before, even used Fedora-livecd to create a texlive/tetex live cd so I could typeset documents. I did not give up and succeded. All this and now, it will be changed :( What is the problem that we will not be able to have a livecd/usb like porteus is right now modular and apps can be added/deleted and customization..., etc. With a different base like arch or any other, we will have to start from 0 and it will not be the same.
The modular concept, ease of use and speed is what draws people.
Exactly! This is why people liked it and with Slackware base solid! With too much new technologies especially systemd, which wants to take over everything, many users will not want to change base. I understand the time and effort and duplication, and all, but why not do as a benevolent dicatator would do? Like Tomas from Slax, used to say, Slax is not meant to be installed, but if you want to you are on your own. If you want this desktop or that desktop you help and cooperate to get it there. We are not going to hold hands and there you go. People have to learn that you are a person and you cannot meet all their demands. It may not die, but it surely will never be the same and with that sYstemD stuff you can't see what is happening behind the scenes, people are not happy with that. Slax was slow did not update much, etc. This is why porteus was born it was slax-remix, now you can see what Tomas' went through and still people will never be happy. Just give them what you can and don't burnout. You are a person you do not have to do too much. People will not always be thankful for what you do. You cannot keep all people happy all of the time. I hope you can see some of the points that I am making.

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#88 by brokenman » 12 Nov 2015, 03:01

and we can use to rescue/see/view/troubleshoot pcs throughout.
Still possible under Arch Porteus.

We have a porteus as we had our Slax it was our POCKET OS.
'had' is an interesting word you use for slax here. Why exactly do you use the word 'had'?
Arch Porteus is still a POCKET OS. Less than 200MB.

Packages were not problem at least for me.
You are an experienced user. They ARE a problem for many people. This is precisely why I wrote USM.

I waited for years to achieve a livecd with a custom tex ... I did not give up and succeded.
You are persistent. Many others are not. If they can't get their app to work on Porteus they move on. I have a feeling under Arch Porteus this would be a breeze. Getting docker to run on Porteus was a problem for me. 3 minutes later, I had it running on Arch Porteus.

What is the problem that we will not be able to have a livecd/usb like porteus is right now modular and apps can be added/deleted and customization
There is no problem. Nothing would change. It would be exactly the same format, only a different base. A new comer would not even realize they are using a different base.

especially systemd, which wants to take over everything, many users will not want to change base.
I hear this a lot. I am using it right now. Have done for a while. It is not as invasive as people that have never taken the time to use it think. Everybody has a right to their opinion. I just wish people would at least make an informed decision. Investigate it, use it and then decide. Most sheeple just follow the crowd and avoid it. I think these people will hop distros until there is nowhere left to hop eventually.

but why not do as a benevolent dicatator would do?
Because I am not a benevolent dictator. If I were, I would just change base and release it.

and with that sYstemD stuff you can't see what is happening behind the scenes
How so? Because it uses binaries? I am perfectly aware of every step it makes.

This is why porteus was born it was slax-remix
Yes. We have both been there since the beginning. Why was slax-remix born? Because development for slax stopped. Perhaps it was too much for one man. Part of the reason I want to move to Arch is so this doesn't happen. I can streamline work much easier, and the documentation for Arch is second to none. The decision I make will be based on having a maintainable future first and foremost.

I am listening to users, I am debating with users. I have made no forgone conclusions as yet. I like slackware. I have no strong feelings against systemd. What I am more interested in hearing is solutions and ideas instead of people just whining about how they love slackware and hate systemd. I have a lot of respect for you Tonio, as I do for many other long term Porteus users, but I can't make my life unworkable because of die hard slackware fans.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#89 by brokenman » 12 Nov 2015, 03:03

Perhaps time to grab a dingie... float... float... blub!
This is a little cryptic. Are you referring to Porteus drowning? I notice your profile says you are using debian. Interesting.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#90 by brokenman » 12 Nov 2015, 03:16

I hope to release an ISO this weekend so people can try it out and see if it is usable for them. I will then hold a poll to see what the majority thinks. All of this will impact the final decision. I will also know in a few weeks if my work situation will change which may afford me more free time. If I could work on Porteus full time (as in it made an income) I would be happy releasing both slackware and arch versions.
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