The future of Porteus

New features which should be implemented in Porteus; suggestions are welcome. All questions or problems with testing releases (alpha, beta, or rc) should go in their relevant thread here, rather than the Bug Reports section.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#121 by Bogomips » 14 Nov 2015, 20:15

@tonio
Links appreciated, just the kind have had in mind to look for. :)

Nemesis of Porteus

Shifting Goalposts :Search:

II. Different Directions

Quality vs. Quantity

Have just a few apps, not more than 20, probably nearer 10 in number. However require them to be just about the very latest version, which at the moment they are. Also, thanks to neko, running on 4.2.5 just about the latest stable kernel. Consequently been able to dispose of nvidia driver, as nouveau is up to the job in latest kernels. Managed to bump C++ library to version needed by most of newer apps,

Have GTK+ VERSION 3.16.7 one of the latest versions of GTK+3 from Arch. This has systemd dependencies, which are satisfied by ver. 224 systemd module weighing in at just over 12 MB, with all Porteus dependencies. (As this module at graphical level, does not seem to interfere with system.) Have latest version of Handbrake and Nemo(cinnamon file manager) from Arch, both of which require late version of gtk+3. Also able to run gtk3-demo program.

Just had the one system crash this year, and that was when trying to run a java applet, other than that, two or three times not woken up from sleep. On previous live systems was not unusual to expect a crash or two of system every other day. Able to booti from iso file on hdd and run in ram AF using 30% of available 880 MiB ram with cpu clocked at 800 MHz. Given the limited resources, have no problem with video playback, etc. Think that's as good as it gets! :good:

PaleMoon Firefox Divide

The scenario I would like to present is somewhat akin to the PaleMoon Firefox Divide. The bells and whistles brigade going to Porteus 4.0, while those who want a Porteus, as they know it, try to make the ride last just a little longer.

Dependencies Resolution

In the matter of resolving package dependencies, the pkgs.org resolver should able to get the Arch dependencies which can thereafter be fed into neko's sausage machine which produces a module, given a list of Arch of dependencies, should one be not too bothered about what goes into said module. The rpm and deb dependencies, which the resolver finds will however have to be modularised by hand.

This just leaves dependencies for Slackware packages, which cannot be properly dealt with by the resolver procedure, owing to inadequate documentation in pkgs.org.
brokenman wrote:Will USM and the tools to support it be maintained?
No it wouldn't.
Not stated was whether code of same could be released for maintenance by someone who has delved into the workings of usm, here having in mind, cttan.
KnallKopf wrote:It is a littlebit crazy that where Porteus is perfect (the USM is a great work) the evolution stops.
Crying shame to let USM die. At a minimum would be worth just to keep usm ticking over by updating database when necessary.

Upcoming Slackware Release
  1. Kernel module. Maybe neko could oblige by providing one.
  2. Core module. Not so au fait here. Maybe within neko's area of expertise, or matter of live scripts.
  3. Xorg module. Can't think offhand of anyone who can do that. Live scripts?
  4. As far as fitting on a desktop, could claim experience in that direction having done stints in system software development, system software support and firstline support in a somewhat software engineering capacity (learning by doing, the buzz phrase), in the level between the core system and the user application, reaching into both core system and user application.

    And it seems there will remain quite a pool of experience and expertise, which one could tap, for guidance by any attempt to help with installing a desktop. Starting with the simplest desktop and then progressing on to more complex ones. Help being restricted to hobby level (not f/t).
Haven
Ecocomputing wrote:Q: Which of the lightweight linux distributions, which also run entirely in RAM do I best use ?
A: The best distribution for you will depend on your own preferences. TinyCore Linux for example is extremely small (<10MB) and lightweight, uses FLWM window manager and relies solely on xvesa drivers (not X.org graphics drivers) so it will work on even computers where you could have graphics problems with. However, for most it's just too spartan. SliTaz is only a bit bigger (40MB) and has more functionality, ... (Openbox as Window manager, own package manager -TazWeb/tazpkg-, ...). Antix is all ready quite a bit bigger (690MB) but is much more familiar for debian-refugees (semantic package manager, ...). LXLE and Porteus are bigger yet, have the LXDE window manager, and are easier for Ubuntu-refugees. Note finally that linux distro's sometimes get discontinued. So this list of distro's needs to be viewed as a guideline. When you decide to change to a lightweight linux distro, it's best you first research the current distro's available by checking out the appropriate wikipedia articles.
Striking a Blow for a Greener Environment.
As distros get more and more power hungry one can expect more and more refugees with slightly outdated h/w, or disabled ecologically-sound computers (usually hdd u/s) who will want to make a go of it on lightweight distros. If they are prepared to go this far, then it is most likely they would be prepared to put up with distro of different nature from that to which they were accustomed, and to learn the ropes, and they would normally be of the more experienced variety, who would not throw in the towel at first sign of difficulty.

Delegation
brokenman wrote: From our (Fanthom and I) experience it is best to wait until we see a user working hard in the community and doing stuff in the development section first, and then approaching them to see if they would like to join the team.
IMHO an unaffordable luxury at this juncture. Do helpers have to be on the team if it is just a stopgap measure to breach the current difficulty?
brokenman wrote:It is a complete waste of time (that we don't have) to teach someone all the ropes only to have them leave the next year. Even saying straight up 'We need developers. Apply within' just hasn't worked. Usually we will watch strong participants in the community that are developing something alone
Alright in the long run, but at the moment there appears no prospect of a long term perspective.
brokenman wrote:and see if they stay. Even then, the person has to understand what they are committing to.
Then again, how long is a piece of string?

Surely dedicated volunteers do not have to be on the team. They can just help out with simple or time-consuming aspects of the work. (Some two-three months before release date we received code from the Italian section. It was full of errors of the kind, just recently come across: edit file a, then copy file b to file a. Just the one column of assembler extending over many, many pages with not a single comment. Clearly used trainee programmers for the job. Had our hands full correcting logical errors, left the other parts of code untouched with all the superfluous instructions. Managed to get debugged for release, terribly inefficient but worked. Come next release code from Italy of very different nature, with very little to correct, and none of the unnecessary instructions. Clearly programmers replaced or improved.The design was important, and how bad the code was really did not matter just as long as it could work the first time!) :beer: Really doesn't matter if someone helps out and code not so tight or slightly erroneous, as long as it can be got to work within a tried and trusted design. Next time round person either improved or replaced, but time has been bought and the design will win through.

Reservation

Having participated in bringing out major release of an os, am familiar with all the brouhaha that goes with it. Consequently with all due respect to brokenman for his dedication and with gratitude for help rendered, my major concern, apart from reservation over lack of extensive testing over extended period of time, is stability. And I cannot in all honesty regard the Arch way into uncharted territory a viable proposition.

Brings to mind a Czech short I once saw. It concerned two mice going at it hammer and tongs, solving the most complicated integral equations on a blackboard. Then along comes a cat, and with a smirk on his face writes 1+1=2. Next thing mice out of the picture! All that's left is cat with contented look on face licking his chops!
KnallKopf wrote: For example it is not good when the distrubition depends only on one Man. When he makes a wrong decision or leave the project.
Or worse still but nicer if brokenman smitten: ravishing Brazilian beauty cross his path, and brokenman, at the drop of a hat, forsake all his computers for love! :%) Then 'twill be finito de la musica, passato de la fiesta (apologies to beny if got it wrong)
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#122 by phhpro » 14 Nov 2015, 22:32

...
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KnallKopf
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#123 by KnallKopf » 14 Nov 2015, 22:36

I had make some test to rebuild a updated porteus. but i can not do it.
000 to 001 is not the problem but it is paintfull to get kde running.
1.) there a lot of porteus own applications (why is it so ? many af the applications are in bigger packages of repository).
2.) i have no experience with the X-server or sound configuration. (This is a great work of fanthom and brokenman)
3.) with 07-printing i have not concerned with it, but i know it will be paintfull.

I think without brokenman's work is it not possible to do it, because there i so much experience in it and i think for many things exist scripts.

For example it is not good when the distrubition depends only on one Man. When he makes a wrong decision or leave the project.
I do not think only on brokenman i think on Patrick Volkerding too.
should we stay with slackware
If Patrick Volkerding does not decides to use systemd.
If we can make a updated porteus all 1-2 years, so that the underlying software are max 3 years old.
YES
But i know it is not possible.

About a Arch based Porteus:
I have no realy valid opinion about Arch based Porteus,
because i had no experience with it in the past.
In the moment i test and learn.
But i feel the same as i migrate from windows to Linux: the simplest things are a problem.

Possible that i am to stupid, but i have the fear that Arch are not really KISS.
For example pacman and there subprograms, in equal to usm.

And i do not like systemd (but for there is the systemd threat)

In the other hand i seems that arch have more future because it have a bigger developer-base, more packages and a arm hardfloat version.

But i have to learn a lot, before i have a valid opinion.
And i respect your decisions too.

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#124 by wread » 15 Nov 2015, 02:42

Last edited by wread on 17 Nov 2015, 15:52, edited 14 times in total.
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
The Porteus Community never sleeps!

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#125 by francois » 15 Nov 2015, 03:19

@wread:
Link expired
Carpe diem.

aus9

Re: The future of Porteus

Post#126 by aus9 » 15 Nov 2015, 04:31

well its been a few hours so time to add my aussie 2 cents to this discussion.

Firstly, does the knowledge that one person is the main maintainer of the ISO upset you?
I would offer 2 part answer.

part ONE, if I was running a server or a commercial product etc then the answer for me personally is yes.
part TWO, No it does not matter if everything works better than some other distro?

But LInux Format magazine also looked at the speed or lack thereof that distros updated packages due to critical security flaws.
And altho you can probably find those results altho a bit old, you can get a trend by looking at the distrowatch package list for a distro that has a "current" release.

And here is why I moved to Debian unstable years ago when distro=sid existed.
It gave me bleeding edge and by deduction most upstream maintainer's products were soon in the downstream.

In other words, if the distro is more of a base and the user gets their packages from a rolling release, the concept that the ISO is maintained by one person becomes slighly less relevant.

The toolchain is hard work, I attempted to update it on another distro using LFS pages as a guide and I failed. Altho that might indicate poor skills by me, it does give me more respect for those who do succeed.....no matter what distro they are with.

Also if brokenman is lucky enough to steal the love of a Brazillan beach babe, that leave me with the opportunity of more aussie beach babes :D

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#127 by wread » 15 Nov 2015, 12:10

Alien's Bob
Further points of interest that are unchanged since the previous releases:
- ConsoleKit2 replaces Slackware's ConsoleKit. Now we have something again
which is properly maintained and well on its way to implementing the
necessary parts of the systemd-logind API (so that we can ignore systemd).
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
The Porteus Community never sleeps!

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#128 by brokenman » 15 Nov 2015, 16:54

Good news!
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#129 by fi5ban » 21 Nov 2015, 20:24

Brokenman

you have to do what is best for you and what you feel is best for Porteus with some consideration for the people who help develop it and try to give the users what they request to the best of
your abilities and resources .
From what I have learned over the years with Porteus Group is not a large distro like Red Hat or Ubuntu. 2nd is the people who do the work load aren't going to be lighting their cigars with $100 dollar bills any time soon they do it for the enjoyment!!

And as I read through some of these comments it saddens me to see such disregard to those of you (primarily Brokenman) who have worked you asses off to provide all this. And for those
comments they have made I would like to express my apologizes!!!!!!!!! (Please Accept Them)

I GUESS THE OLD SAYING APPLIES HERE " PUT UP OR SHUT UP" Another words get aboard and assist with the development team lessen the load that leads have!!

Brokenman to speak towards the systemd I have read and researched it and I get 2 things

1> In concept it is wonderful everything for everything for control in one place great intentions but

2> (opinion) It is like the government they promise to provide everything to everyone but it becomes a behemoth,confusing and complicated

What about a BSD flavor??


Bottom Line to all the People Who Have Brought Us Porteus Thank You!!![/u][/i][/b] and I am sure no matter what the your decisions are you will make them with what you feel
will make the best Porteus

Fi5ban

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#130 by Michele13 » 22 Nov 2015, 11:48

I guess that BSD is a LOT different then a Linux system...It's better to stick with Linux for convenience and because it's what we have used during all this time...

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#131 by phhpro » 23 Nov 2015, 01:24

...
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#132 by Jack » 25 Nov 2015, 05:58

Hi all,

In the change over will x86 Mate or Cinnamon or both be used? Hope so. If not I guest I will stay with Porteus 3.1 cause it still works great for me. When it stop working I don't want to go back to Mint (Cinnamon) or Ubuntu.

Where was the poll I would I like to view it. I did a search but I couldn't fine it.

This is or was my .02 cents.

Jack
I just like Slackware because I think it teach you about Linux to build packages where Ubuntu is like Windows you just install programs you want.

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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#133 by Bogomips » 25 Nov 2015, 12:01

^ Not as yet. Machine breakdown. AFAIK 32 bit iso yet to come out for test drive.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#134 by brokenman » 25 Nov 2015, 13:02

If we chang over I will most certainly add the mate desktop. They just released the next version too. I will work on the 32bit release this weekend. Sorry for the delay. I can still work on my current machine although it is much slower. One of the benefits of usig a live OS. I just put the HD from the old machine in this one and make sure I never boot from it.
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Re: The future of Porteus

Post#135 by Jack » 25 Nov 2015, 18:24

Hi all,

I will sure give it a try but I hope it is going to be as easy to add package's as Slackware is.

Jack
I just like Slackware because I think it teach you about Linux to build packages where Ubuntu is like Windows you just install programs you want.

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