I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Please post in this category if you are extremely unhappy with Porteus.
WARNING: This section may contain strong language.
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I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#1 by sedstar » 29 Jul 2015, 20:39

I'm not HATING this 32-bit xfce porteus? Actually? I kinda LIKE it... but...

Whats the deal? You are obviously set out to make a "Linux newbie friendly distro"... you let people click a few questions and automatically "spin" their distro... my USB boot maker already had an entry in it for your distro, so, THAT was easy to get my usb booting...

now, i am no expert in linux? I have been distro hoppng for "easy to use, windows newbie friendly" versions... THIS looked like it was in that genre... and it was... i was happy. Easy menus... i moved the system tray to the bottom, and i reset the resolution... BAM, im happy... firefox fires up, my wireless internet was a one click affair... hey, i'm a happy camper! in fact?? while i am a linux newbie... i am a former professional programmer, and i also build computers and fix them for people... i'm ther computer guy people CALL... and i have been looking for a easy windows friendly "browse and email distro" like THIS one to try to give my customers... to keep their computers from crudding up when they browse with windows,,,

==========================================================

my rant? why in the &^%$ do you RUIN all this newbie friendliness you have carefully cultivated by...

1) i'm no idiot with computers? i am just a newbie to LINUX... i can program in assembler, hell even hex code if i want... i get into fixing every version of windows from 95 to win 7 my customers screw up? and it takes me LONG HOURS to figure out how to get the stupid SAVE FILE working !!! do you seriously think any of my customers (they can barely handle windows, let alone navigating the linux mounts and file structure, LMAO) do you SERIOUSLY expect them to find and modify the boot config file???

my main problem? the documentation leads me to believe the file path to the change file in the cheat codes (plural, lol) i insert into the cfg file?? that i just need to "path" from '/porteus/......' to specify the location... and RIGHT before where i insert the cheat code?? the same line?? the system is using the assumed path, not the FULL path i had to use.

also... it was not immediately apparent that i had to put it in both locations, IE, both under the regular boot AND the ram boot... i figured if i put it under RAM BOOT, then when i went to ram boot option, i could uss the save file... i didnt realize ram boot was just an additional thing after the regular boot, that i HAD to put it in both locations in the cfg file.

you SERIOUSLY need to specify, and make it more clear... that you have to use the FULL PATH from "mnt" to ".data" in BOTH locations or it wont work... and mind you?? i'm not an idiot with computers. I mean, i DID IT?? but... i was cussing, and wondering why int he &^%$ puppy linux manages to have an AUTOMATIC save file, and you guys cant come up with a script or a GUI to handle this simple task, after all the other great work you did making this all "newbie friendly" for regular windize users to migrate to linux.

2) so... while i am SO FRUSTRATED for HOURS with this complication??? i get mad reading in the documentation... "oh yeah, we easily COULD have made it automatic, or made a GUI to do it? But we figured what the he!!, might as well let the linux newbies have fun figuring out the fun puzzle we left you... hope this makes you ENJOY linux, all you newcomers..."

(can you detect my sarcasm? LMAO)

=============================================

then? seriously and all... why does every other site in the world hit you with "spam bot" questions to register that are obvious but still weed out the spam bots... questions like "what color is the sky (blue)" or "not a cat but a... (dog)"

after all my frustration... why in the &^%$ would i even remotely want to take a history quiz on the founding fathers of linux???

=============================================

you see? THIS is the sort of "cute" and "clever" things that keep new linux users AWAY from even easy introductory distros, like this one is positioned to be... you see, its not that distros JUST LIKE THIS ONE are not fully capable of stealing MS customers away from them? its the crap i just went thru... that makes people NOT want to try linux, after they attempt it and fail.

I mean, I'm a computer guy, i pulled it off, you know?? there aint NO WAY any of my customers would have done this, they would have freaked out, and had to call me... but, they would have just spent a few more bux and got the next version of windoze, what they are used to. They would have said "Aw MAN, i thought linux was EASY now they told me... this is like i need a programming degree to figure out how to get the save file working!!! Screw this!!!"

=================================================

make a little menu or GUI app for the SAVE FILE, or make a script for it, whatever...
dont deliberately create a "puzzle" for the newbie linux installer

and for the love of GOD, dont expect a history quiz to register to hit the help forum, thats like adding insult to injury...

===============================

unless, you are TRYING to keep casual surf-n-email windoze users from coming over to linux?

seriously now, the ".CFG" file is just a simple text file... no reason a simple "browse to your location" GUI wouldnt/couldnt modify the text file in the proper 2 locations... eh?

just put a COMMENT above both locations the line above, with a special character RIGHT where to insert the full path name they selected off of the GUI to have the path name inserted right below it on the next line... wouldnt be that hard a program if the comment was loaded with the character the line above it to SPOT the location for the program...

==========================

my 2 cents...

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#2 by Ed_P » 29 Jul 2015, 22:12

Wow!! An old BAL guy. Me too. :)

And I'll bet when you learned machine code you didn't even know what a GUI was, yet you learned it. Probably the usual way, try something, doesn't work, try something different, doesn't work, try....

Welcome to Porteus. :good:
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#3 by francois » 30 Jul 2015, 00:11

Welcome to porteus forum sedstar. Thanks for your time. :)

We are a small and friendly community, and really appreciate constructive criticism. Nobody is paid to maintain this os. We do not have the critical mass of ubuntu, manjaro or even puppy linux in terms of membership. If you play around with porteus you might appreciate many of its positive features.

Your propositon for a persistant change script is welcome. Where would you like it to appear. On the first run of porteus for example. Additional hands as you can are badly needed to revamp faq and bonify porteus.

On what type of filesystem did you installed porteus? Did you installed on on linux filesystem? Know that the persistent mode is provided for Graphics mode, the option that will boot up automatically if no other option is choosen.
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#4 by sedstar » 30 Jul 2015, 10:00

whoa... human responses... how cool.

1) What does a "BAL" stands for? I might be one, i dont know, lol... my first assembly code was z80A ?? lol... then 8086/8088 code... we used to have to write routines in assembler, then POKE them into memory to speed up BASIC programs wayyyyyy back in the day. (poked in the hex code, after you wrote a hex to decimal translation routine... naturally) You POKE'd the data for your machine code subroutine into a chosen memory location... then you called the routine, and got your result (if any) by PEEK-ing the memory location back. (this speeded up BASIC to commercial standards)

years later? i was amazed i could still do assembler for programming PICs and microcontrollers for the electronics guys, lol...

freaked the EE guys out, when i could walk in, ask "big indian" or "little indian" and make hex code for them, LMAO...

(I am a dinosaur, lol)

==================================================================

QUOTE"Welcome to porteus forum sedstar. Thanks for your time. :)"
Answer: Your welcome, i am just happy that i was allowed to "rant" and be sarcastic, lol... and happier i didnt get kicked out the help forum, LMAO...

QUOTE:"We are a small and friendly community, and really appreciate constructive criticism. Nobody is paid to maintain this os."
Answer: Yes, i am figuring that out, that a lot of the small LIN distributions are sort of a "hobby OS". What amazes me, as a newcomer to LINUX world? Is how WELL a lot of them RUN. I am impressed.

QUOTE:" We do not have the critical mass of ubuntu, manjaro or even puppy linux in terms of membership. If you play around with porteus you might appreciate many of its positive features."
Answer: I already appreciate many of its positive features, mainly positive for me? was a GOOD CLEAN DESKTOP, and the desktop looked like Windoze... GOOD CLEAN MENUS fairly well organized. GOOD CLEAN icons and fonts, that dont look like Egyptian heiroglyphics. I was "hopping distros" for a while? and your desktop reminds me of "Linux LIte" once i moved the taskbar to the bottom of the screen.

I LIKE the idea of simply dropping in a folder, as a "module"... and automatically having it available to the OS next time i run it (havent tried it yet, though)

I installed ZORIN OS instead of LinuxLite on my hard drive? simply because Zorin had the "easy desktop and menus" AND had a big software repository... but, i still am "hopping" distros to find something to run on USB, that i can give "casual windows customers" that looks and feels easy to use to browse the internet... Zorin and LinuxLite are too BIG for that (slow), and thats why i was liking "puppy" with the run-in-ram philosophy... puppy is a little bit TOO stripped down some of them... Porteus seems like its running in ram, but with really nice desktop and menus. Good middle of the road for running USB.

QUOTE:"Your propositon for a persistant change script is welcome. Where would you like it to appear. On the first run of porteus for example. Additional hands as you can are badly needed to revamp faq and bonify porteus."
Answer: Okay... I am NO EXPERT at linux, lol... you guys seem to be running "like Puppy Linux" but with better desktop and menus... puppy does a "save" every so often automatically, and every time you log off/shut down... or you can turn it off, and just hit SAVE button manually.

i LIKE the automatic nature of puppy saving... it just freaked me out when it "saved" suddenly when i was on the desktop and i thought my computer froze, lol...

Heres my thing... Porteus already "knows" and "expects" the file structure, right? I mean... whether i install it
on a USB like i did, or i do a frugal install?? the porteus folder is still in the same place relative to the main folder... when that script gets RUN, does the scripting language have something like a "environment variable" or a "path variable" available to the scripting language?? You COULD then just instruct the user to find the CFG text file, and COPY and PASTE the location of the save file from the "path name" in the file manager... example in pseudocode:

ChangePathVar = null (up near the top of the CFG scripting file)

and simply instruct the user to replace "null" with the COPY and PASTE-ed file location.... down IN the scripting file?? you would already HAVE the "changes=ChangePathVar" in the two locations already (in the initrd lines, or whatever) or maybe:

if ChangePathVar = "null" then
initrd blah blah
else
initrd blah blah changes=ChangePathVar
end if


THAT way? the user is going to a known location, at the top of the CFG file, and inserting the file path in ONE LOCATION, and its right up the top of the CFG where its easy to find.

personally? i didnt know WHAT to do... it was unclear to me if i was to use the FULL PATH (from "mnt" to save.dat) and say changes=full path... or, was i expected to use the "local path" (IE, the environment knows it already)... trying to be INTUITIVE, i looked at all the OTHER path names in the CFG file? They were all relative paths... so i used THAT... didnt work.

So, i eventually tried FULL path names, that i copy and pasted from the file manager textbox? that didnt work... because i was only trying to put it under the "run ram" option... eventually by keeping at it? (afraid i was going to blow the CFG file, lol, cause i dont know what i am doing) i figured out to use the FULL PATH copy and pasted from the file manager, in both locations.

more confusing to me, was the comments in the CFG file, one of which said "porteus normally saves to the "changes folder" under "/porteus/"..." but, there was no "changes" folder there, lol... (i tried MAKING a "changes" folder under "porteus", just to see if that worked, lol...

from my way of thinking?? once i am at the desktop, and i go in to make a location and name for the save file?? Under the GUI? I already "told" porteus WHERE the save file should be, and WHAT the name of it already is... NOW, as a programmer? once i am inside the CFG file, looking around??? i notice that the script CFG file mujst be generated at runtime, because i saw my "time=newyork" and stuff like that cheat coded in...

really, if there is a concept of a variable in the scripting language?? you could just decide on a location for the variable (say, always on line 7, or whatever)... then the GUI that lets me set the save file name and location? could simply edit the text file automatically...

===================================================

if you want to keep things the way they are now, and not "automate it" from the GUI ? at LEAST make it clear in the documentation, that you are to put in the FULL path name, in both locations, and maybe give an example of COPY and PASTE the file location off of the file manager (which is how i got the full path name there, lol)

again, and i ma showing my ignorance here, lol... does the scripting language have the ability to "include" or "read in" from another text file? because if you could do THAT?? you could just put a single text file in a defined folder somewhere... and that would be EASY for the GUI to know exactly where to put the path name and file name the GUI selects...

unless you cant change the GUI program? (i hadnt thought of that, lol, you might have gotten it from some other distro)

okay... in that case? god himself help me, but, it should just have a default save location already running out of the box.. i mean, i am on something that looks like windows? the average user, they dont care if they are running in RAM, running form the hard drive, they dont know or care... all they know is that that they reset their screen resolution, and next time they boot up? their changes are gone, LMAO


QUESTION:"On what type of filesystem did you installed porteus? Did you installed on on linux filesystem?"
Answer: My USB... i use something called "YUMI" a downloaded small windows program? it lets me select "distro names" off of a list, and it either puts the distro to "boot" on the USB... or it ADDS another distro to the USB file system. Porteus was "on that list" in YUMI? thats why i tried it, lol... no, sincde i was running YUMI from windows?? its a FAT format...

QUESTION:"Know that the persistent mode is provided for Graphics mode, the option that will boot up automatically if no other option is choosen."
Answer: welllllll. Once i got the FULL PATH NAME under both "menu options" as a change= cheat code in the CFG file? anything i do is "saved" now automatically, no matter whether i run from ram or just in graphics mode.

if by "persistent mode" you are indicating that the changes are already set up? no... out of the box? running from USB like i was doing... default graphics mode was not persistent... thats why i even got into this.

============================================================

good sweet christ... from talking about all this? i am starting to get some idea what is going on in linux, LMAO... i never thought that would happen, lol...

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#5 by francois » 30 Jul 2015, 11:18

Yumi installer with porteus has been problematic for another user:
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=4870&p=35502&hili ... ois#p35502

Porteus is Linux, it works best on Linux file system: ext2, ext3 ... .

Would you expect windows to work on Linux filesystem? :wink:
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#6 by sedstar » 30 Jul 2015, 12:27

Uhm... i see your point, lol...

to be funny? i barely expect WINdoze to run in its OWN file system, lmao.... :evil:

==============================

so... you are saying...

if i had burned a CD and ran it boot from the CD... the save file was automatic under default graphics mode.
if i had burned the USB from LINUX, it would have had the ext# file structure, and the save would have worked

i'm not a GRUB-ninja, lol... thats why i found YUMI to make puppy linux work... and using THAT led me to try other distros 'cos it was so easy to burn USB distros...

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#7 by francois » 30 Jul 2015, 13:56

The cd method is the official method. It works flawlessly. Once you have porteus running, you then get to know linux. At some point you had to get to know windows, don't you remember. Each time windows upgrade microsoftword don't you have to adapt?

Then you familiarize yourself with porteus (linux) and its useful tools. With gparted you can partition usb, hdd ... with a linux filesystem. Linux offers fat and ntfs partitioning as you will see, but does windows permits linux filesystem? :evil:
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#8 by Ed_P » 30 Jul 2015, 15:16

sedstar wrote:1) What does a "BAL" stands for? I might be one, i dont know, lol...
Basic Assembler Language. It was used with supporting mainframe systems.
francois wrote:The cd method is the official method. It works flawlessly.
That may be true of older releases on older hardware but newer machine don't have CD drives and a Porteus design point is to be PORTable which means installing on USB drives. And USB drives to be accessible on as many machines as possible are formated as FAT or exFAT. Thus for persistence one needs a save.dat file and automating the addition of the save.dat to the porteus.cfg file is a good idea.

BTW sedstar another tool that's good for testing distros that supports Porteus is Easy2Boot.
Ed

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#9 by sedstar » 31 Jul 2015, 08:46

easy 2 boot looks interesting... as well as a LOT more supportive of more ISOs than YUMI... reading thru the pages quickly though? in both the WIN and LIN versions of the instructions? they keep repeating how its highly recommended to use FAT and NTFS...

i went with UnetBootin downloaded for LINUX on my ZORIN installed system... so i could use Gpart on the USB (ext4), and put the PORTEUS on it... worked flawlessly that way, and the persistence was automatic. Generated a "change" folder like it was supposed to.... the only limitation of this is you can only make "one" distro on the USB...

YUMI's attraction to me, was putting multiple distros to run live on one USB... the only limitation being FAT or NTFS only...

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#10 by sedstar » 31 Jul 2015, 09:29

Ohhhhhhhh... *slap* I think i get it now...

its not as much a PROGRAM as it is... well the one page said...

its a collection of grub that you copy and paste onto the USB drive, and you just copy ISOs onto it.... and the grub's dynamically recognize and menu-ize your ISOs...

hmmmmm. I guess i have to give it try. it DID say "ext2" was useable? I was really hoping for ext3 or ext4 though....

gotta try it tho... Thanks!

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#11 by Bogomips » 31 Jul 2015, 12:14

sedstar wrote:hmmmmm. I guess i have to give it try. it DID say "ext2" was useable? I was really hoping for ext3 or ext4 though....
If just running iso files from usb, and have otherwise low r/w frequency, then IMHO ext2 will do nicely. Generates less traffic on the usb, owing to not doing journalling.
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#12 by francois » 31 Jul 2015, 21:42

@seva:
I have no window filesystem on my box. Would unetbootin work on your hdd ntfs installation?

I use to promote the use of unetbootin for slax users, just to try on their ntfs installation without having to partition the hdd. Easybcd could be an additional software to manage the multiboot that type of installation:
http://old.slax.org/forum.php?action=vi ... ntID=48540
Just replace slax by porteus to follow the instructions.

Maybe we should promote unetbootin. But Ed does not like the software. :(
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#13 by Ed_P » 31 Jul 2015, 23:11

francois wrote:Maybe we should promote unetbootin. But Ed does not like the software. :(
I don't think I have ever used UNetbootin, and if I have it was a long, long time ago. From reading it's webpage it seems like it supports installing a few dozen Linux distros to USB drives. But only one at a time on the drive. And I don't see a reference to Porteus on it's list of supported systems: http://unetbootin.github.io/#distros

A utility that I do like is Easy2Boot. It supports booting almost a hundred different systems, including Porteus: http://www.easy2boot.com/add-payload-fi ... oad-files/ AND it supports having multiple systems on the USB drive concurrently. And like Porteus, it supports booting on UEFI machines. I didn't see a reference to UEFI on UNetbootin.

So, what utility one should use should be based on what result they want and what environment/machine they want to run on.
Ed

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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#14 by francois » 01 Aug 2015, 00:37

@ed and sedstar (for your clients):
Any iso could be booted from unetbootin given it has been downloaded on your system:
1) Windows unetbootin download:
http://launchpad.net/unetbootin/trunk/6 ... ws-613.exe

2) Download porteus iso of your choice.
http://dl.porteus.org/

3) Install unetbootin exe. Which will start the unetbootin iso installer. As porteus is not proposed, select disk image. Select hard disk and drive C: and OK

IMPORTANT: The next reboot YOU will be in the window environment. At the window prompt do not select remove previous installation of unetbootin. This would remove the unetbootin installation that you just have setup. You will have two choices. Select UNETBOOTIN and porteus will boot.

You can refine the bootloading options with easybcd. Its free, all you have to do is to register:
http://old.slax.org/forum.php?action=vi ... ntID=48540
To download easybcd:
http://old.slax.org/forum.php?action=vi ... ntID=48540
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Re: I was actually quite happy... until... GRRRRRR!

Post#15 by Ed_P » 01 Aug 2015, 05:41

I do hope you misspoke.
francois wrote:As porteus is not proposed, select disk image. Select hard disk and drive C: and OK
That implies I would be installing Porteus to my C: drive, where my Windows system resides. What happened to installing to a USB drive?
francois wrote:The next reboot YOU will be in the window environment. At the window prompt do not select remove previous installation of unetbootin.
My Windows boot menu now has a prompt to remove UNetbootin!! I have never had a boot menu offer to remove an app.
francois wrote:You will have two choices. Select UNETBOOTIN and porteus will boot.
What's the other choice, the one to remove UNetbootin? What happpened to booting Windows?? :shock:
francois wrote:You can refine the bootloading options with easybcd.
You can also maintain them using bcdedit, which is a standard part of Windows. An example is posted here: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=4457&p=32254#p32254
Ed

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