Systemd ... a can of worms

Non release banter
User avatar
brokenman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5439
Joined: 27 Dec 2010, 03:50
Distribution: Porteus v3.2rcX all desktops
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#1 by brokenman » 22 Feb 2015, 02:34

Every other linux forum on the planet has a long thread with abuse being thrown around about Lennart Poettering and his code so I though why not us?

What do you think of systemd? Why? Comments from people that have actually taken the time to use it would be appreciated. I found it to have a slight learning curve but after that it is nice to have many tools in one place. I am against closed binary blobs but I guess devs have their reasons for this. If it has some kind of unifying effect on the linux world then I am all for it as long as it doesn't allow sloppy bug ridden code, and doesn't oblige linux users to install it. I like choice. I have to say though Mr Poettering makes some quite generic and polemic statements in interviews. He is very outspoken, but when you are a visionary you really need to be.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

tome
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 561
Joined: 26 Jun 2013, 14:03
Distribution: x64 Openbox
Location: Poland
Contact:

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#2 by tome » 22 Feb 2015, 10:16

Even ignorantguru (spacefm) waked up - https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2015/02 ... n-spacefm/
My thoughts (priorities):
Freedom of choice - YES.
Coercion/obligation to install closed binaries - NO.
One way of moving ideas/solution - maintainers -> inert community - NO.

Maybe there is war on Linux ,and who is lobbying for systemd or against it?

User avatar
phhpro
Full of knowledge
Full of knowledge
Posts: 545
Joined: 10 Nov 2013, 20:35
Distribution: .

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#3 by phhpro » 23 Feb 2015, 05:15

...
Last edited by phhpro on 04 Feb 2016, 02:07, edited 1 time in total.

KnallKopf
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 134
Joined: 18 Sep 2012, 20:56
Distribution: Porteus 64bit KDE4
Location: Absurdistan

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#4 by KnallKopf » 07 Mar 2015, 16:27

Sometimes i Take Care about the strange ideas by the admins,
like using Debian or Systemd. :(

I think it is LennartPoettering-RedHat-NSA-Crapware !
For a short coupple of time if have read that systemd will working with uefi.
Systemd should be incompatible to Unix.
This gay was programming avahi and pulseaudio.
This guy is more saboteur like a programmer. =@

When i need a OS that are highly complex and incompatible to other OSs,
then i will use Windows. :evil:

But i can understand that other non slackware distrubitions are changing from there init-whatever-mix
to Systemd, but i am highly happy with SysVinit.
Last time i have worked with a Debian and i was understanding the people that say:
"Linux is only for unemployed tinker freaks with a lot of time." :wall:


by the way Lennart Poettering and avahi:
avahi send my MACs to a broadcast address.
Will this routing up to my ISP ?
When yes it is crap because when people use there registrated DSL network and
later try to surf anonym by a unregistrated UMTS-Modem.
There uniq MACs get to the ISP and monitoring people can find them.

How need Avahi ?
I wich me for the future a Lennart Poettering free Porteus.

User avatar
brokenman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5439
Joined: 27 Dec 2010, 03:50
Distribution: Porteus v3.2rcX all desktops
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#5 by brokenman » 17 Mar 2015, 02:31

I am interested in the opinion of users that have taken the time to use systemd and therefore give a valid opinion. If that opinion is bad then so be it, feel free to flame. I have personally found that it works fine where other things have failed. After learning how it works it makes some things much easier. I am of the opinion that it is still in development but after it matures and stabilizes I believe most linux like OSs will make the change.

By the way, I also found that pulse audio just worked in many situations where pure alsa didn't. I find it interesting that people associate the NSA with systemd. How exactly does one come-jump to this conclusion?
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

User avatar
francois
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4905
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 14:25
Distribution: kde xfce porteus manjaro kubun
Location: Enfin l'été, le changement climatique attendu: le soleil.

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#6 by francois » 17 Mar 2015, 02:36

Systemd is on archlinux and it seems to work pretty well with their package management. Archlinux provides very lean linux installation as stifiling wrote on this forum.
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

User avatar
phhpro
Full of knowledge
Full of knowledge
Posts: 545
Joined: 10 Nov 2013, 20:35
Distribution: .

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#7 by phhpro » 18 Mar 2015, 02:46

...
Last edited by phhpro on 04 Feb 2016, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.

KnallKopf
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 134
Joined: 18 Sep 2012, 20:56
Distribution: Porteus 64bit KDE4
Location: Absurdistan

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#8 by KnallKopf » 20 Mar 2015, 23:11

Lennart Poettering working for RedHat
RedHat =
- reside in USA
- Large software company provides comercial products for corporate ago. for example server-applications etc.
- The US Department of Defense was 2005 the biggest client from RedHat.
- REHL integrate SELinux and Mandatory Access Control.

RedHat are certainly more from strategic interest like Microsoft, because they provide products for Servers and Enterprise.
(unless: the NSA are only pervert and are interested only for private pictures)
Certainly the NSA dont need a National Secure Letter for this companie, because the US-goverment a one of the biggest client.

Systemd seems to bee powerful, it is a egg-laying-wool-milk-sow (jack of all trades).
It is ideal to infiltrate the complett linux community.
Systemd will import bootloaders that support UEFI.

... it is still in development but after it matures and stabilizes I believe most linux like OSs will make the change.
My feeling tell me, that we have no choice in Future for not using systemd.
We should enjoy the time where we dont need them.

You are right i have never work with systemd and I hope I never have the.
- but tell me why should be good to learn a new scriptlanguage, configlanguage or whatever systemd need.
- I find SysVinit are clear, comprehensible and simple to use.
for which reasons should i do without:
> faster booting because they make things paralell ? is my PC a smartfone ? poor argument.
> can make a lot of other work ? which killerfeatures provide systemd ?
Tell me (I mean not even flamig).


@ francois
when i have the amuse to work with other linux-distrubitions then I discover that they are crap.

@ phhpro
yeah dummis like Patrick Volkerding

User avatar
phhpro
Full of knowledge
Full of knowledge
Posts: 545
Joined: 10 Nov 2013, 20:35
Distribution: .

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#9 by phhpro » 21 Mar 2015, 05:18

...
Last edited by phhpro on 04 Feb 2016, 02:10, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
francois
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4905
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 14:25
Distribution: kde xfce porteus manjaro kubun
Location: Enfin l'été, le changement climatique attendu: le soleil.

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#10 by francois » 21 Mar 2015, 10:37

@knallkopf:
Just that I could understand your line of the thought better, and here I have no hidden thoughts in mind, why do you write that Volkerding is a dummy?

In 2012, there was a more than sympathetic interview with Volkerding on Linux questions. He is really modest. Let's hope he survives, as we could hope that Hamerlees (alienbob) does. These guys seems to work very hard for the community and do not seem to roll on million$.

Patrick has an opinion about systemd. Read the whole article, which as I said is quite interesting, or use your find function to reach the systemd information:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... re-949029/

Volkerding does not seem to be involved in any conspiracy. Reading between the lines, he seems to see google and apple as some kind of protector against MS monopoly.
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

Bogomips
Full of knowledge
Full of knowledge
Posts: 2522
Joined: 25 Jun 2014, 15:21
Distribution: 3.2.2 Cinnamon & KDE5
Location: London

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#11 by Bogomips » 21 Mar 2015, 16:44

francois wrote: Patrick has an opinion about systemd. Read the whole article, which as I said is quite interesting, or use your find function to reach the systems information:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... re-949029/
Thanks for 'Slackware must read' reference. :)
Linux porteus 4.4.0-porteus #3 SMP PREEMPT Sat Jan 23 07:01:55 UTC 2016 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) 140 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2) MemTotal: 901760 kB MemFree: 66752 kB

KnallKopf
Samurai
Samurai
Posts: 134
Joined: 18 Sep 2012, 20:56
Distribution: Porteus 64bit KDE4
Location: Absurdistan

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#12 by KnallKopf » 21 Mar 2015, 21:16

@ francois
Sorry it was ironic.
It was the anwser @ phhpro
All that whining chiefly comes from a bag of dummies
My opinium are the same like Patrick Volkerding + it can't be good if a employee of a companie which is in connection with NSA,
to development a programm which staying in the middle of each Linux-Distrubition, and control a lot of background processes.

@ phhpro
nearly half as easy to come-up with something better.
I do not have to come-up with something better. A better thing exist it called SysVinit.
the guy has a somewhat twisted relation with the rest of the world
No i have exaggerated and was unobjective. It is not really relevant, It is more important which company are behind them and where get this companie there money from.

newer == better ? i dont have see in this threat a good argument for systemd. (of course, to changing my mind, it must be really good.)
but well, we could just as well return to the caves...
It is a typycally blame, yes-man, argument.
I think a lot of people in the world would like to have a cave.
When i see the wretched in TV-news. I am not sure whether we would have preferred to stay in the caves.
When i see the yes-mans in my country Germany to tell always yes to the US-fire-raiser. Then i am fear, we will live in caves in future.

donald
Full of knowledge
Full of knowledge
Posts: 1126
Joined: 17 Jun 2013, 13:17
Distribution: Porteus 3.2.2 XFCE 32bit
Location: Germany

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#13 by donald » 22 Mar 2015, 02:16

not to be misunderstood, I do not like systemd.

why are so many distri using it?...
because it makes it easier for developers...just take this blob, add some stuff, ready to go..

yeah, it's booting faster,(that's not even true),and who cares about the boot-time?

I fear that we will loose our freedom of choice,
as soon as more and more programs will need systemd as a dependency.

I don't have anything against Lennard or Red Hat, because ~80% of the open source code is already coming from companies or their employees.

And because there are so many ways to implement malicous code somewhere,
the argument, US-Company = NSA, has lost its meaning.
One thing is certain, what can be done, will be done...no matter what it is...
anywhere in the world.

In the future I will probably have no choice but to use systemd, but I want things which are proven to be good....with systemd I don't see this.

just my 2 cents

User avatar
brokenman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5439
Joined: 27 Dec 2010, 03:50
Distribution: Porteus v3.2rcX all desktops
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#14 by brokenman » 22 Mar 2015, 15:04

Still waiting for a valid link to ANYWHERE that can prove that systemd is linked to the NSA in ANY way. I think this is absurd. If you wanted to infiltrate a wide range of linux like operating systems wouldn't you aim at the kernel? Why target a largely init oriented module? Wouldn't it be much easier and more effective to hit a base core system package like openssl or glibc than the init system?
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

Bogomips
Full of knowledge
Full of knowledge
Posts: 2522
Joined: 25 Jun 2014, 15:21
Distribution: 3.2.2 Cinnamon & KDE5
Location: London

Re: Systemd ... a can of worms

Post#15 by Bogomips » 22 Mar 2015, 17:36

From what I've gathered so far: it seems systemd is not a can of worms, but by trying to be all things to all people, could end up 'a jack of all trades and master of none'.
Linux porteus 4.4.0-porteus #3 SMP PREEMPT Sat Jan 23 07:01:55 UTC 2016 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) 140 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2) MemTotal: 901760 kB MemFree: 66752 kB

Post Reply