Charlie: with words

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francois
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Charlie: with words

Post#1 by francois » 13 Jan 2015, 11:52

The images talk by themselves.

Here is the place for words. :)

Edited 150114 to partially please bogomips and tome.
Last edited by francois on 15 Jan 2015, 04:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#2 by KnallKopf » 13 Jan 2015, 17:40

I do not understand the charlie hipe.
And why 1million people demonstrate hand in hand with european government heads.
The same goverment heads that demands total monitoring.
For example i was read heise.de that David Cameron demands encoding should not be allowed.
And the same shit came from German politicians.

And the stupid german people demonstrate pro/contra against islamic in europe,
because we have no other problems like high expensive rent in the citys, homless, bad working conditions, or
that you can bay a computer but the european government heads determine what are you can do with it.

The german lieing press (in german = lügen presse) is pleased to.
Which act as if they staying for freedom
The same press which baying (or blackmail) politicans to make the Intellectual property right.
And the same press that will you imprison if you can not pay there tax.

12 (or more ?) people die by krimminals, this is sad but lot of people die by krimminals.
And i thing (but I can not prove) a lot of people are dieing in france jails for bad condition.
And a lot more people will die for poverty in Europe.

And there my questions: Have the france people no real proplems?

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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#3 by francois » 15 Jan 2015, 03:44

Interesting point of view that you present here. It seems that reality is a lot more complex than that last week event. There is a lot of injustice in this world as you report in your post.

Have a look at the letter of Jean-Luc Besson, which intercede against that injustice, and who wrote to his muslims brothers living in the parisian suburbs : Together lets repair this injustice done to the youth.
http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/ar ... son&xtcr=2
My brother, if you knew how much I hurt for you today, you and your beautiful religion defiled, humiliated, pointed at. Forgotten your strength, your energy, your humor, your heart, your fraternity. It is unfair and we will all this injustice. It is millions to love and we will all help. First things first. What is the company that is offering you? Based on money, profit, segregation, racism. In some suburbs, unemployment under 25 is 50%. It departs you for your color or your name. It ten times a day you check it you crowded into apartment blocks and nobody represents you. Who can live and thrive in such conditions?...

Good for us if these events are pretext to have some more profound discussions on the actual state of mankind and the planet on which it lives, and the way it should be.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#4 by Ed_P » 25 Jan 2015, 03:20

Most of your images didn't bother me, but this one did: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4245#p30623
I thought it was rude, disrespectful, insulting even. I had no problem with any of the other images, just that one. Why, because it disrespectful of a deity I believe in. Then after a few days it hit me, the images that followed it didn't bother me because I don't connect to them, but if I was Moslem and they represented my deity then I would feel the same way about them.

Using religious figures as cartoon characters, regardless of the religion, is not an expression of freedom of the press, it's more a reflection of stupidity, ignorance, immaturity and arrogance by the artist, author and publisher.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#5 by brokenman » 25 Jan 2015, 13:41

Using religious figures as cartoon characters, regardless of the religion, is not an expression of freedom of the press, it's more a reflection of stupidity, ignorance, immaturity and arrogance by the artist, author and publisher.
Never a truer word was spoken. Not only that, it starts wars. To the publishers of such material (with whom I believe the fault lies) I would say .... so you want publicity through shock tactics? Do you fully understand the consequences of your actions? I hope now you do.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#6 by donald » 25 Jan 2015, 14:27

But is it not also a proof of how stupid and primitive the mankind still is,
when a cartoon can start a war?
I believe what I believe, If others don't believe the same, I'm not feeling pissed.
.....mankind,please make the next step in evolution....

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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#7 by francois » 25 Jan 2015, 21:49

Thanks Donald, this is exactly the idea!

In each religion, its seems, life is the most important value. And being kind and loving for your neighbors, is a basic principle. Would you do that for only the people that have your religion and kill the others in the name of religion?

Ed and Jay, I never meant to hurt convictions or feelings: this is a stereotype, a caricature. I have choosen christianity to show that Charlie hebdo was not specifically targeting muslims. The theme could have been Allah, Buddha, Mithra as gods; but also Obama, Harper, Cameron, Putin, Castro as heads of governments. Writers, song performers, ... ... name them, are also their targets. In fact, I am christian of origin.

Caricaturists are there to perform a critique of people in power and of dogmas, to help us think or reflect about important issues, but sometime just to trigger a laugh or any reaction. One can fear or hate what he does not know.

Charlie hebdo cartoonists are a bunch of atheist or agnostics, they are apolitical, critical of people in power, for the people. And if you read on them, or follow them on videos, you realize that they have a strong political, intellectual background, though some idiosyncrasies in terms of style, specially including disrespect. In 2007, there was a court hearing held in France against them for blasphemy which they won. France is mainly a laic nation. This is a must to understand this actuality. But maybe for some the french language is a barrier to understanding.

As much as there is a right to beleive in god, there is an authentic right to disbelief, for which science provides at least some background. Also, historically speaking, very often religious power would run hand and in hand with political power to rule people.
Last edited by francois on 29 Jan 2015, 20:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#8 by Slaxmax » 27 Jan 2015, 22:49

The mockery is not a thought. But instigation to disorder.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#9 by francois » 28 Jan 2015, 03:48

Knowledge empowers, an article in wikipedia about Charlie hebdo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

Would you say that I am stupid, does not mean that I am stupid, or mean that this is a fact. It only means that you said I was stupid. I could not say that you think I am stupid unless you tell me that I am stupid, and even then you could say that I am stupid and think on the contrary that I am not stupid. A thought is not necessarily a fact. But if you say that you think 2+2 is equal to 4, you can say it, think it, but additionally this is also a fact. There are differences between what are called judgments and what are called facts. :Rose:
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#10 by Slaxmax » 01 Feb 2015, 22:07

Worth it for those who died, mock the religion of the muslims?
Paid dearly with their lives.

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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#11 by Bogomips » 02 Feb 2015, 14:48

As a religion, Islam is 600 years behind Christianity in evolution. So you have to think what would Christians have done 600 years ago? :evil:
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#12 by brokenman » 03 Feb 2015, 00:51

Human nature is human nature. Nothing will change that. There a reason why all the devices searching for intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from earth.

Please keep in mind that the whole should not be judged because of the actions of a few. There are rotten apples on every tree. In every religion, business, organization or weekend get together there are no doubt idiots that do idiotic things for their own reasons. I personally would never judge the majority by actions of the minority.

Comedians always walk the limits of who they mock but there ARE limits in my humble opinion. These limits should be respected regardless of free speech. Freedom of speech should not be a license to abandon all respect and sensibility. The reaction by fanatics to the publication of a comic was undoubtedly heinous and should never have happened. They are as much to blame. It takes two to tango and my Grandma told me to never argue/mock religion, politics or football. Wise woman she was.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#13 by Ed_P » 03 Feb 2015, 03:17

@brokenman

Wise woman indeed. I like your grandma.
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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#14 by sean » 03 Feb 2015, 03:54

Me 2 (ditto)

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Re: Charlie: with words

Post#15 by francois » 03 Feb 2015, 04:21

600 years ago!!

In fact, crusades began around year 1100. At that time, the barbarians came from the West, these people were still in what is called today middle ages (called also dark ages, because it was not really characterised by knowledge). These westernes destroyed everything on their way to seize Jerusalem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Age ... iddle_Ages

Muslims were at the height of their civilisation. We have to remind that Muhamad the prophet was born in 570:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

Historians report that muslims had kept all the knowledge from the greeks. Not only, science, philosophy, but also medicine, worth of mention Avicena:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna

This knowledge had been destroyed by the christians at the end of the roman empire (around 400-450), because some of it would go against the dogma of christianity.

Westerners came back from the crusades with this greek, muslim, asiatic (arabic numbers, orinating from India) knowledge, which help them to get out of the dark ages. Renaissance and then Age of enlightment for westerners could come in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Renaissance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment#Italy

Image
This is a renaissance painting by Raphaël (around 510):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_of_Athens

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