Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

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brokenman
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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - Problem

Post#16 by brokenman » 18 Sep 2014, 01:43

Firstly. Congratulations on persisting, and figuring it out for yourself. This attribute is kind of what is required from most linux distros. Users are automatically logged in as guest for security. An uninformed root user can unintentionally wreak havoc on the system.

Out of interest, what would you have liked to have seen from the beginning? What would have made it easier for you?

Your fresh eyes are really useful and the installer is being rewritten right now.
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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#17 by Brock » 21 Sep 2014, 00:34

Brokenman:

To answer your question about 'what would I have liked to have seen right from the beginning', I would say that for me, as a typical new user of Linux, the MOST important thing would be to get up and running, quickly and easily. In order to take a trip, you have to be able to get on the train. I was prepared for a steep learning curve once I got into Linux, but I was really surprised at the difficulties I had right from the start, and which seemed so unnecessary. I think it should be the goal of Linux developers to make Linux accessible to everyone. After all, isn't that kind of the philosophy of Linux --- an Operating System for The People? That means that, regardless of what distro it is, it should at least boot up, run, and save basic settings (i.e. user status, network), right out of the box. FYI, before I even got to Porteus, I had to learn, (with difficulty), how to download an .iso file and how to burn it to a CD, DVD or USB stick so that it would boot. After going through that, to have an OS not install, boot, run, or save settings, would put anyone off.

In brief, If Linux ever expects to seriously challenge Microsoft and Apple, it has to run, right out of the box, and after that, the more user-friendly it is, the better. Yes solving the "puzzles and problems" of Linux can be sort of satisfying, but when you get in your car every morning, to drive to work, do you really want to have to tinker with the motor to get it to run? I think not.

One last thing, as I research solutions to my problems, I find that those who know the answers are frequently terrible communicators. They speak another language, which is no help at all. I understand the benefit of being able to converse in technical jargon, but again, if your goal is to actually bring (many) new people into the Linux family, that attitude needs to change. Newbies need to have good, complete, explanations in language that they can understand. Save the Linux-speak for those who comprehend it.

I hope that these sincere comments have been helpful. I am 100% confident in what I have said. These are the things that Linux developers need to be talking about. If Linux works well, right out of the box, people will use it, no matter what the desktop scheme is. We all got used to Windows, didn't we?

Thanks for asking the question. Sorry if I kind of unloaded on you.

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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#18 by Bogomips » 21 Sep 2014, 12:10

Brock wrote: it has to run, right out of the box, ... Yes solving the "puzzles and problems" of Linux can be sort of satisfying, but when you get in your car every morning, to drive to work, do you really want to have to tinker with the motor to get it to run? I think not.
Good example of this is the rocking Skype. After fiddling around in configuration file with skype_in & skype_out and getting nowhere fast, and not wishing to be distracted from the major focus here, I gave up. Mint for some reason would not run the new Skype, but finally managed it on Elementary, without detour into audio technicalities.
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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#19 by Bootloadersconfuseme » 22 Sep 2014, 10:34

Porteus/Linux is a new operating system to me and I am enjoying learning it
I have noticed that many people that struggle with installing or using an operating system that is new to them will too easily start picking faults with the operating system rather than accept that they are struggling to grasp something
Brock wrote
FYI, before I even got to Porteus, I had to learn, (with difficulty), how to download an .iso file and how to burn it to a CD, DVD or USB stick so that it would boot.
As far as I am aware, most operating systems need to be downloaded from the Internet as a .ISO file. Should a Windows user have no installation disk for a new install of the operating system they would download a .ISO file from the Internet and create an installation disk with that ISO
I have had and will have many problems with my computers because I enjoy testing new operating systems and programmes plus procedures that will make things work better and quicker - What a daunting task it was when for the first time I needed to burn a .ISO file to disk, because I struggled until learning how to burn a .ISO file to disk it had nothing to do with the operating system that was written to that disk

Slowly slowly is the way forward when learning a new operating system, when I find time, I as a beginner will post my experiences from installing porteus

I hope this helps

Now I must open a new topic as I have a problem with installing and booting several porteus 3 OS's, I am confident someone will help me

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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#20 by Ed_P » 22 Sep 2014, 14:52

Brock wrote: I was prepared for a steep learning curve once I got into Linux, but I was really surprised at the difficulties I had right from the start, and which seemed so unnecessary. .....

before I even got to Porteus, I had to learn, (with difficulty), how to download an .iso file and how to burn it to a CD, DVD or USB stick so that it would boot.
Really!! You had difficulty downloading an .iso file!! But that had nothing to do with Porteus, or Linux. And with the help of Google it should have been rather easy. https://www.google.com/webhp?rls=ig&gws ... .iso+files
In brief, If Linux ever expects to seriously challenge Microsoft and Apple,
Oh, that challenge ended years ago. Today we have Windows (Vista, 7, 8, 8.1), OS X, iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and many Linux operating systems.
but when you get in your car every morning, to drive to work, do you really want to have to tinker with the motor to get it to run? I think not.
One of my favorite analogies but your forgetting that before you get in your car to drive to work you had to:

LEARN how to drive
LEARN how to start the car
LEARN how to shift it into gear
LEARN what gears to use and when
LEARN how to stop the car
LEARN how to use the signal lights
LEARN how to use the radio
LEARN how to use the high beams
LEARN how to park
LEARN how to put gas in the car
LEARN how to put air in the tires
LEARN how to .....

And I suspect you didn't complain to your mom or dad that driving was too confusing and that it should be easier while they were teaching you how to drive.

Remember, once we stop learning, we are no different than a rock.
Newbies need to have good, complete, explanations in language that they can understand.
Newbies need people who take the time to help them, like the ones I found here, and so have you. :wink:
Ed

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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#21 by brokenman » 23 Sep 2014, 00:38

Thanks for the input Brock. We have decided to leave the installer as it is for the next release until some time can be put into creating a more intuitive version.

The problem about competing with windows and apple on ease of install is that both come pre-installed. If you are re-installing then the process will involve downloading an ISO (or buying a CD) which means that linux is not really so far off in the ease of install situation. Even with windows we never stop learning. Check out this video of a dad using windows 8 for the first time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyc1RVCXvAk
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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#22 by Brock » 24 Sep 2014, 05:43

Friends:

Mr. Brokeman asked me what I thought, and I gave him my honest opinion. If you've heard it all before, maybe there's a reason for that. You all can argue me down if you want to, and I could counter all of those, but what it comes down to for me is this: Do I want to turn on my computer and work through a maze of problems, or do I want to turn it on and do useful work. The computer (OS) is a tool to an end, not an end in itself, unless that's what you like to do. My time is more valuable than that. In the ideal world, I would say that the OS should be completely transparent.

Thanks for your viewpoints.

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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#23 by brokenman » 24 Sep 2014, 19:10

The computer (OS) is a tool to an end, not an end in itself, unless that's what you like to do.
This is a very good point, and perhaps something that linux enthusiasts lose sight of. Precisely why I asked for a fresh set of eyes.

In the ideal world, I would say that the OS should be completely transparent.
Yes. I asked my mother what operating system she uses and she said "I think it is Office". That said a lot to me.

Let's leave this thread alone. A question was asked, discussed, answered and solved. No need to drag it out.
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Re: Installed Porteus on a FAT formated HD - SOLVED

Post#24 by Brock » 26 Sep 2014, 18:24

Thank you Mr. Brokeman, and all. Yes, indeed, let's move on.

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