Different apps on different DE

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phhpro
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Different apps on different DE

Post#1 by phhpro » 19 Nov 2013, 23:24

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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#2 by brokenman » 20 Nov 2013, 18:00

The point of diversity of desktops is exactly that. Offering something different. MATE is gnome based and therefore requires a whole different set of dependencies in order to run. LXDE/XFCE being lighter weight DE's don't require as many deps. KDE is a different animal altogether and then razorqt is a qt based DE. In essence it would be nearly impossible to keep an identical core of dependencies across all desktops. The same goes for applications. What KDE offers as an application may not be feasible for MATE and so a different application is offered.

Perhaps it would be worth a thought to have a more unified main framework to fully; and equally; cover each of the DE's
We have a unified core in 000,001,002 modules. Over and above that each desktop maintainer adds whatever dependencies are required to have the desktop run (with additional apps).

At the end of the day we had a community vote that showed undeniably that users prefer to use one desktop rather than multiple and so, being a democratic distro, we took the majority vote and decided to offer a 'build your own' one desktop ISO.
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#3 by phhpro » 20 Nov 2013, 20:15

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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#4 by francois » 20 Nov 2013, 20:38

@php and brokenman:
Thanks for these interesting comments and counter arguments. There is indeniably something going on with this by desktop approach that we decided on. I have the global impression that it is innovative and that it present additional advantages over the disadvantages. Do we have enough experience with this new way of doing things to be able to highlight the pros and cons?
Now, if you were to reply, that missing dependencies are auto-resolved, well then think again, because you just missed my point completely. I'm not interested in building some cyber-patchwork, but to have everything required in there; working on whatever DE. Not everybody has a permanent 24/7 up-link. Meaning: If I decide - or am forced - to work off-line, at least that application; following the on-demand dep-resolv; would be off-topic, and thus pretty much useless.
Can we state on which desktop is presently the more complete and the more stable, between kde, xfce, mate ... ? And if one desktop is more complete just pinpoint that to the user. At first sight KDE seems to be more mature, but for sure MATE has a pretty good coverage in terms of package coverage. Maybe maintainers are better placed to state on extended coverage and stability (less bugs).

Concerning PPM, are the dependencies resolution covered evenly for all desktop in the porteus repository? Is there more work to be done for one DE option or the other?
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#5 by phhpro » 21 Nov 2013, 00:39

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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#6 by francois » 21 Nov 2013, 02:57

I hate loosing my post because of this =@ forum password issue =@ =@

@phhpro:
Have a look at fat gnome, this is one of brokenman creature:
viewtopic.php?f=108&t=2635&sid=0199038e ... 06f0d41538

See if does not answer to some of your comments. I will have to test the beast myself. Maybe we can call it a christmas gift. :)
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#7 by phhpro » 21 Nov 2013, 03:26

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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#8 by francois » 21 Nov 2013, 03:43

Mate is really different. The porteus edition is really sexy. :oops: You will be surprised. :D
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#9 by Ahau » 21 Nov 2013, 06:49

This is definitely one of the "cons" of having a modular system. Might I ask what package was working for you in MATE but not LXDE and what deps were missing? I'd imagine this case is fairly rare except when you're dealing with DE-related applications. Geany and mtpaint aren't really an issue in the dependency side of things as they don't bring in any. They're present in LXDE and XFCE because I wanted the functionality but those DE's don't have good DE-specific options for a small image editor or mid-range text/code editor (I'd probably go nuts if leafpad and mousepad were all I had for scripting). We're looking to make each desktop functional without unnecessary stuff and that does lead us in different directions based on what's out there. Maybe there's some potential for a "compatibility" module that would contain a handful of useful stuff from some of the desktops to make the transition easier for those that want to boot different DE's from the same installation.

Brasero is a horse of a different color to me, as it's gstreamer based (in fact, I'm kind of suspecting that it's either a gstreamer or some other kind of gnomeness that you were missing). I tried working with gstreamer but really didn't like it so I kicked it to the curb and haven't looked back :D

The trade off here is that you actually can set up one system that can boot into multiple DE's without all the other crap from the other DE's bleeding into it. There are bound to be a few hiccups along the way, but I don't know of another distro that can make that claim (though I certainly haven't tried them all).
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#10 by francois » 21 Nov 2013, 15:11

@ahau:
I think you, brokenman and fanthom are best placed to judge. This is why I am talking about impressions. I have been working with the different platforms, but never went into a systematic comparative analysis of the different desktops.

It is good that you the maintainers clarify that point. This way we will not be subject to cognitive distortions.

Thanks for doing so. :)
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#11 by brokenman » 22 Nov 2013, 16:40

Don't get me wrong, my post wasn't to be read as a negative hack.
Your post certainly didn't seem negative in any way. Just constructive (for which I thank you).

To elaborate on the core ... Fanthom prepares the kernel and basic core modules (000,001,002) which will get you booted into text mode with no desktop. Within the 002-xorg module are some standard apps that will appear in all desktops across the board. Over and above this, each separate desktop includes it's own applications. I also think it would be a better idea to have equal apps as much as possible. Brasero is certainly a gnome app and as such appears only in MATE (which is gnome 2 based by the way). KDE will have apps that the others won't have.

From memory the reason I didn't include geany in MATE was because of a bug in gtk2 (or the theme, I don't remember) which was maxing out the cpu whenever you minimized geany.

Essentially from this thread I see that you would like to see a common set of apps (wherever possible) across desktops. I will work with Ahau to try to achieve this as much as possible where possible. Brasero will appear in MATE but I doubt Ahau will want to pull in the extra deps just for this. PBurn is a CD burning app that will be common across all desktops.
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Re: Different apps on different DE

Post#12 by phhpro » 24 Nov 2013, 04:39

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