Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manager)

Porteus based on Arch with pacman package manager.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#211 by francois » 17 Sep 2015, 01:02

I reread your post, and I am happy to learn:
All my Arch modules are made from converted pkgs.org "pkg's" (Arch) using LxQt/Porteus. And all of them function flawlessly in Sensei.

However, as arch is a rolling release distribution and is condidered more bleeding edge than slackware, it could happen that some packages could supercede some important packages of your porteus installation. This is the case for archlinux abiword, porteus does not support the actual archlinux version. So you might get into some limitations trying to build archlinux on porteus. See last post of first thread:
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4997

In addition, here is what beny has to say about archlinux and slackware compatibility. Stated from the chat:
i have stripped a lot of arch packages and only a few are good for slackware

Why don't you want to simplify your life with pacman? Stifiling explains how to build modules using porteus/arch on the first page of this thread. So you have the advantages of porteus: modules and the advantages of archlinux a greater pasture to work with. I would be please to test a lxqt module for porteus/arch.

Concerning factual information comparing archlinux to slackware here is a very good thread by someone who looks like a connaisseur:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ar ... tributions
Slackware and Arch are quite similar in that both are simple distributions focused on elegance and minimalism.
Slackware is famous for its lack of branding and completely vanilla packages, from the kernel up. Arch typically applies patching only to avoid severe breakage or to ensure packages will compile cleanly.
Slackware uses BSD-style init scripts, Arch uses systemd.
Arch supplies a package management system in pacman which, unlike Slackware's standard tools, offers automatic dependency resolution and allows for more automated system upgrades. Slackware users typically prefer their method of manual dependency resolution, citing the level of system control it grants them, as well as Slackware's excellent supply of pre-installed libraries and dependencies.
Arch is a rolling-release system. Slackware is seen as more conservative in its release cycle, preferring proven stable packages. Arch is more bleeding-edge in this respect.
Arch Linux provides many thousands of binary packages within its official repositories whereas Slackware official repositories are more modest.
Arch offers the Arch Build System, an actual ports-like system and also the AUR, a very large collection of PKGBUILDs contributed by users. Slackware offers a similar, though slimmer system at slackbuilds.org which is a semi-official repository of Slackbuilds, which are analogous to Arch PKGBUILDs. Slackware users will generally be quite comfortable with most aspects of Arch.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#212 by blue4meridian » 17 Sep 2015, 22:06

Salutations... :good:
So you might get into some limitations trying to build archlinux on porteus.
IMHO... :oops: Arch's greatest limitation is dependency hell. :evil: . However... Slackware's greatest limitation is repo hell. :evil: .

And yes... beny is absolutely correct. However... the question is does that issue apply to Sensei? So far I have not seen it although possible.
And I haven't ruled out Pacman. I just haven't reached the glass ceiling (yet). I guess I'll have to jump off that bridge when I get to it.

To date I've made 26 modules using 100's of packages. If I find the motivation tonight I guess I'll do the LxQt module.

Also I can't say I've tested Abiword but I have tested these dropins...
Rubinius
PyPy

These type of "under-the-hood" binaries (Jit's) are the foundation of my remix. At least at this time my focus is middleware not apps.

I also wish to note that I am no fan of systemd. However... until I can replace it with something like uselessd... it's the only game in town. :unknown:

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#213 by francois » 18 Sep 2015, 12:18

Bluemeridian, I would say you are right about porteus-arch. Abiword will not be a problem as the missing dependencies on slackware are there on archlinux.

Surely stifiling could reason a lot better than me on issues tied to porteus-arch compared to arch alone. The major one being that it is a rolling release distribution and its use of forcing some packages as described on the first page. Just backup your work once and a while, just for sure.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#214 by blue4meridian » 18 Sep 2015, 12:31

Salutations... :good:

Because I'm stubborn :x I break things alot. So there's a very good chance I will break Sensei. :wall:
I own 3 Androids and bricked them trying to root. I own 15 mobo's and set 2 on fire.

The upside is... (if there is one) I will learn something and get better the next time. 8)
However... breaking things can get expensive real fast.

I realize doing Arch by hand is like watching ice melt :fool: but (fortunately?) I already made (over the summer) a decent loadout of their abstractions.
Now I will not delude myself that every time I need a binary it will not start a new round of dependency hell but I know there will be fewer levels.

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#215 by francois » 18 Sep 2015, 15:26

Rereading first page, I was completely wrong as to force some packages on the installation. It will make it better:
viewtopic.php?f=114&t=2386
pacman -S --force' is safe. if your package won't install it's because one of the slackware files from the original porteus is already present. so technically, it's more broke before you use the '--force' than it is afterwards. using the '--force' is helping to completely fix the system by overwriting the previous slackware files, wit the correct arch linux ones.

In addition, in the next to the last post on the first page stifiling explains how to build modules on arch-sensei. Personally, I do not use save.dat as you can read in my big post on the top of first page. I just use standard linux filesystem.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#216 by blue4meridian » 18 Sep 2015, 16:02

Salutations... :good:

I have not yet begun to analyze (deprecate?) the "00~" modules so I am not sure if the Arch "filesystem" package was used. :unknown:
However... just in case I installed it in one of my loadout modules and so far so good... no conflicts.

This was the package I tried to shoehorn into Slackware and it kept hosing the startup sequence w/ "too many symlink" errors.
A good potion of Arch dependency requires that package.

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#217 by francois » 19 Sep 2015, 00:15

Personally, I think that stifiling arch version on porteus kernel is the best out there on the market. Ready to use for those who do not want to learn the fundamentals of archlinux and their philosophy. Personally, if porteus would have to switch distribution, I would go readily for archlinux. Maybe there would be less contorsion. I am sure that we could beat Manjaro with the archlinux pasture. Even though. we only have a small community.

The structure of the porteus menu is so clean. Working with the system is facilitated by the porteus interface. Is it that I got acustomed to it? I don't think so. In addition porteus has many interesting tools. It seems that porteus-arch benefits from them. We have opened and creative developpers and members.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#218 by francois » 19 Sep 2015, 00:23

@bluemeridian:
If you provide a lxqt module, I engage myself to provide a kde module. :D
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4890&p=36879#p36879

Note: Only the 32 bit architercture permits working with linux filesystem. On the 64 bit, I was unable to do so.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#219 by blue4meridian » 19 Sep 2015, 01:53

Salutations... :good:

Sounds like a plan. I started the deprecation last night and had to break off. :wall: I'll pick up after midnight (I'm a nightowl).
I agree... Manjaro and Siduction can't close the deal @ this point because their ecosystems are not modular.

Although I have to admit the OpenRC version sounds interesting. Perhaps that is the systemd killer?

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#220 by Bogomips » 19 Sep 2015, 19:23

francois wrote:Arch is a rolling-release system. Slackware is seen as more conservative in its release cycle, preferring proven stable packages. Arch is more bleeding-edge in this respect.
Too right. Got URL for gtk3-3.16.6-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz day before yesterday, and today no longer valid. Already replaced by gtk3-3.16.7.i686-pkg-1.txz!
Linux porteus 4.4.0-porteus #3 SMP PREEMPT Sat Jan 23 07:01:55 UTC 2016 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) 140 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
NVIDIA Corporation C61 [GeForce 6150SE nForce 430] (rev a2) MemTotal: 901760 kB MemFree: 66752 kB

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#221 by blue4meridian » 20 Sep 2015, 07:55

Salutations... :good:

Ok... LxQt is almost ready for prime time. However... :oops: for me it would not be complete without eye candy. :wink:
Unfortunately... the eye candy I have in mind is Slackware so now the problem of compatibility is reversed.

I'm trying to figure out how to get Arch to play well with others. :friends:
http://webwarper.net/ww/~av/pkgs.org/sl ... k.txz.html
http://webwarper.net/ww/~av/pkgs.org/sl ... k.txz.html
http://webwarper.net/ww/~av/pkgs.org/sl ... 1.txz.html

Or... is this a non-issue? After alll... isn't Sensei an Arch userland on top of a Slackware kernel? :unknown:

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#222 by brokenman » 20 Sep 2015, 14:09

isn't Sensei an Arch userland on top of a Slackware kernel?
I don't think so. The kernel sits below ALL linux like operating systems. It is independent of the distro. Think of it kind of like the bios on an old computer. It starts before everything else and then hands off to the OS.

I never really looked at sensei linux (this thread) because I thought it was slackware with pacman. Yesterday I built an arch based Porteus here from scratch. Very easy to do and I could provide a tutorial on how to build the very base system so people can build whatever they want on top. If it is successful I would write a module converter for arch packages and meld it into the system.
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#223 by blue4meridian » 20 Sep 2015, 14:53

Salutations... :good:

Ok... :unknown: Then would you say Sensei is... Arch packages on a Porteus ecosystem?
And if so will Slackware modules run on Sensei? (Actually... I'm testing that now).

Not for nothing... I almost can see in my mind's eye the ultimate distro. Porteus (Chameleon Edition).
Also... a converter is outstanding. Even more outstanding would be to have standalone package tools.

Best Regards... :beer:

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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#224 by brokenman » 20 Sep 2015, 16:36

Arch packages on a Porteus ecosystem? And if so will Slackware modules run on Sensei?
I would say this is more accurate. It is arch linux packages made modular for porteus. You can absolutely use porteus modules in this environment, only they will need to be arch linux packages converted to modules.

For example from inside sensei this may work:

Code: Select all

bacman grep
mkdir /tmp/module
cd /tmp/module
tar xvf /var/cache/pacman/pkg/grep*
cd ..
mksquashfs module grep.xzm -noappend
EDIT:
I almost can see in my mind's eye the ultimate distro. Porteus (Chameleon Edition).
Can you please elaborate?
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Re: Porteus/Arch aka Sensei (Porteus w/pacman package manage

Post#225 by blue4meridian » 20 Sep 2015, 17:09

Salutations... :good:

There are community efforts to make Arch packages that work with Porteus. :good:
I wonder if it's possible to make Slackware packages that will work with Sensei.

Now that I'm using Sensei... there are still Slackware packages that I don't want to give up. :cry:

It would certainly be interesting to see a distro that could run ANY repo package without jumping through hoops of fire. :evil:
It is truly a flight of fancy to imagine such a thing as a distro that is repo agnostic. We can still dream can we not?

Best Regards... :beer:

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