usability tip for you guys

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youtrolledme
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usability tip for you guys

Post#1 by youtrolledme » 16 Jul 2013, 08:33

i just deleted the MBR on my windows machine by mistake.

Because I misread the installer message

You see, the font is very small in the cmd.exe window. I'm over 50, and don't see as well as I once did. i thought it wanted me to press [x] to exit, since there's a [x] there. i certainly knew that i didn't want to format my c: drive! I found that you certainly made it easy to do so by choosing to accept pressing ANY key to format a drive. You'd think that one would require a specific key to be pressed before such a serious action is preformed, or perhaps it would confirm my choice? No.

I wish i was joking about my machine not booting. I can't wait for work tomorrow! This is the behaviour I've come to expect from you unix people, everything is unnecessarily dangerous, and one mistake can cost you your entire system. I'm grateful for the lesson, and i hope you learn an equally pointless and costly lesson of your own sometime *very* soon.

I'm truly sorry I ever tried your needlessly obtuse and destructive distribution that annhilated my system.

Regards,
youtrolledme.

PS
Please tell Admiral Ackbar that he wrote a truly amazing and effective install script, if your aim is to trick some users into destroying their systems.

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fanthom
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#2 by fanthom » 16 Jul 2013, 09:29

hello youtrolledme,

your c: drive was never formatted. MBR got replaced with our bootloader code. here is a well explained fix for that:
http://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/fix-mbr-xp-vista/

btw: in Linux world you actually do need to read the messages so please either do it (especially when you are dealing with tools like an installer) or just stick to Windows.
I'm truly sorry I ever tried your needlessly obtuse and destructive distribution that annhilated my system.
please refer to /boot/docs/License.txt

thanks
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.

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francois
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#3 by francois » 16 Jul 2013, 17:59

Welcome on the forum Itrolledyou. 8)

Linux is all about being in control of your box, instead of the box being in control of you.

Read attentively what the guy, fanthom, answered politely in the precedent post, and you will be all right.

You can rewrite on this forum respectuously and will provide additional support with pleasure. :wink:
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

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brokenman
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#4 by brokenman » 17 Jul 2013, 02:21

I'm grateful for the lesson, and i hope you learn an equally pointless and costly lesson of your own sometime *very* soon.
I'm sure I will if I don't read important messages. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you and thank you for the insightful (if somewhat snarky) feedback. I'll revise the code and see if we can make it any easier or safer, or fool proof as they say.
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rayyu
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#5 by rayyu » 17 Jul 2013, 13:40

youtrolledme wrote: I wish i was joking about my machine not booting. I can't wait for work tomorrow! This is the behaviour I've come to expect from you unix people, everything is unnecessarily dangerous, and one mistake can cost you your entire system.
probably if you don't read the instructions, yeah. The font size IS rather small though. If you're looking for a distribution similar to porteus in size and speed, puppy has a LOT of helpful scripts to walk you through everything, similar to windows. In puppy, all options are clear and explained so less room for user error

Although imho, easiest way to run porteus if you're not sure is to install on a flash drive--that way, no mbr is harmed in the process :good:

(I hope nobody minds me recommending other distros :sorry: I love porteus :D but it doesn't seem to suit this guy's needs so I thought to give him an option if this doesn't work out for him)

btw, linux isn't unix :) small error, but it bugs me sometimes anyway

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francois
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#6 by francois » 17 Jul 2013, 17:21

GNU!
Last edited by francois on 18 Jul 2013, 10:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#7 by cttan » 18 Jul 2013, 02:32

@rayyu,
You are right. If for testing out the live distro, simplest way is to go for the USB install.

Actually I have been using Slax and now full time on Porteus running off USB without the need to install it onto the hardisk.
I have been operating in this mode since September last year without the need to boot into Windows.

If you really need to boot into Windows then just remove the USB disk.


@All Users
Please read every documentations available and familiarise yourself with the distro without making any unnecessary assumption. Any damages done is all by the making of our own choice and behaviour.

Linux/Porteus and the GNU programs are all FREE software. As stipulated in the license, the programmers are relief of any liabilities and damages you do to your computer using the software.

Lastly remember to do frequent backup of all your important stuff.

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francois
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#8 by francois » 18 Jul 2013, 10:06

Linux is free, free as in liberty, not as in free beer. :ROFL:

It makes you free to be in charge of your computer, and not to be the slave of your computer.
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

youtrolledme
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#9 by youtrolledme » 18 Jul 2013, 16:24

guys, I wasn't very clear in my post because I was upset, so let me clarify:

* I *was* trying to install to usb, and somehow the install script got confused or my devices were reenumerated and the installer was targeting C: instead of my usb drive
* I noticed, wanted to quit the installer, misread the sentence (small fonts) and pressed "x" overwriting my MBR.
* I (stupidly) used my work machine, which has an encrypted filesystem and a 3rd party bootloader so I have to get my company's IT to fix it.

I know I screwed up my system, I know it was my fault! What porteus did was make it VERY EASY to do, and what you guys showed me was that you don't care about making it less dangerous to use by telling me that if I didn't want to screw up my computer I should have read the instructions... there's nothing wrong with the installer, it SHOULD punish people with catstrophic system failure if they don't read or understand the directions completely, amirite? THAT'S THE UNIX WAY. I expected a bunch of RTFM replies, thanks for not letting me down.

I wanted to suggest changing the behavior of the installer to something like "press F to format" and maybe remove the [x] that's there to indicate the window decoration for the close button because that's just downright weird and I've never seen it anywhere else in 30 years in the industry-- I mistook it for "x to close" and I can't be the only one.

I'm not suggesting radical changes, and I promise you there have been a lot of other users that made the same mistakes I did and just moved on to something else.

youtrolledme
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#10 by youtrolledme » 18 Jul 2013, 16:33

seriously, you guys don't see anything wrong with "press any key to format" ?

really?

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francois
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#11 by francois » 18 Jul 2013, 17:26

Dear X,

Your tone change is now constructive and really appreciated. Brokenman said he would consider your comment, and I am sure he will. Usually we appreciate improving the product and getting in return some positive feedback of our users. Read a sample of a dozen thread and you will realize that we are quite courteous with the persons new or regular to our forum.

We will be happy to do so for you given that mutual respect is reinstated.
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brokenman
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#12 by brokenman » 18 Jul 2013, 18:06

I noticed, wanted to quit the installer, misread the sentence (small fonts) and pressed "x" overwriting my MBR.
If I put myself in your shoes I can see the problem and I would be a little frustrated too. 'X' is traditionally used to 'exit' or 'close' a window. I assume you are talking about running the file called Porteus-installer-for-Windows.exe. As i said, I'll review the code and see if we can make things simpler. As Francois stated, we are generally an easy going and courteous bunch, but when someone comes into your place with guns blazing, you draw your guns. That's just the nature of people. Again, thanks for your feedback.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

youtrolledme
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#13 by youtrolledme » 18 Jul 2013, 19:51

It doesn't need to be simpler, it needs to be specific, it's the last stop before drastic changes happen, you should be sure the user knows what's going to happen. I would ask for "T" (note capital) so the user not only has to read the instructions carefully to proceed, it's unlikely they'll enter the wrong letter by mistake, especially if they need to press shift. I've installed slackware off of floppies back in the 90s, installing linux isn't new to me at all, nor are live distros; The curse of experience is hubris and when you've been seeing the same boilerplate instructions for as long as I have, you gloss over the details occasionally.

In my software, I try to make easy things easy, hard things not as easy, and I protect dangerous things by always requiring two keystrokes via a confirmation dialogue or a non-mnemonic option (ie: press "Z" to create)
Seems like a fairly trivial change with little downside, either way.

crunchbang's installer was trap-free, so was fedora's, I just don't really like running either of them very much

edit: forgot to say that mentioning the [x] in the prompt will also be very confusing for handicapped users using screen reading software

rayyu
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Re: usability tip for you guys

Post#14 by rayyu » 19 Jul 2013, 03:33

personally I thought it was less "RTFM" and more "KRTTID" (kindly refer to the included documentation ;))
you're right, though, it is easy to make a mistake even if they did read. What if something drops on the keyboard during that phase? (it's happened...sign that I should clear out my desk :))

anyway. I hope you were able to get your drive back. I suggested puppy 'cause I thought you're newish to linux, whoops

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