Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

New features which should be implemented in Porteus; suggestions are welcome. All questions or problems with testing releases (alpha, beta, or rc) should go in their relevant thread here, rather than the Bug Reports section.
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Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#1 by francois » 23 Mar 2013, 22:49

The porteus team has come with a variety of interesting products personalized by the different desktop environments, its original package manager (PPM), its unique and warmful forum with dynamic and knowledgeable participants.

I am wondering if the provision of an available and easy to manage printer interface could not be a substantial asset to the development and fidelization of the porteus membership, especially for newcomers? Do you agree with that? How could this be implemented?

Note: I hope I have presented this topic in the right section.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#2 by fanthom » 24 Mar 2013, 09:48

i think this issue has been addressed already as for next porteus release dev team agreed to maintain a separate module which contains all drivers an utils needed for printing (same as we maintain module for development).

from user point of view it should be as easy as downloading and activating this module, then following some simple HOWTO to print a test page.

i see no point in writing our native cups gtk frontend while tools are out there.

Tomorrow i'll push system-config-printer (and all it's deps) to PPM repo to make users life easier.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#3 by francois » 24 Mar 2013, 10:34

I completely agree with you. I was not not thinking about native printing frontend. I was thinking about giving a simpler access to printing. Printing setup could be quite simple, but also so much complicated depending on the make and model, the fact that it has to be installed usb or network wise, but also on the recency of the device .

1) Simpler howtos (less verbose, I will try to write something archlinux style, it could be revised by ahau or anyone who agrees to do so)
2) Unified approach thru system-config-system or gutenprint-ghostcript system of packages (bigger environmental trace)
3) A specific place in porteus system config for printer settings with the warning as to the additional load required.
4) Single printer driver installation (lighter environmental approach), client tailored approach
5) For more problematic printers, one thread per printer model approach
6) Prompt and dedicated service for printing issues, surely facilitated when all of the above are present, but also with a team of dedicated specialist interested by the printing issues.
and maybe
7) a review on these manufacturers that make life simple for linux users, for example hp, brother to name a few.

Did I forgot something important? :)
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#4 by fanthom » 25 Mar 2013, 13:00

hi francois,

here is my list of system-config-printer dependencies:

Code: Select all

#  system-config-printer
python,foomatic-filters,ghostscript,ghostscript-fonts-std,gutenprint,pycups,dbus-python,pycurl,notify-python,pycairo,pygobject,pygtk
could you check if it's correct, please.

are ghostscript and system-config-printer completely separate solutions or one depend on other?
what else could be added to have full print pack?
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#5 by francois » 25 Mar 2013, 17:13

This table shows the gutenscript-ghostscript and system-config-printer printer systems and their necessary dependencies.

Code: Select all

gutenscript-ghostscript		system-config-printer
______________________________________________________		
		                                                dbus-python
		                                                foomatic-filters
ghostscript		                                ghostscript-9.05
ghostscript-fonts-std		
gutenprint		                               gutenprint
		                                                notify-python
		                                                pycairo
		                                                pycups
		                                                pycurl
		                                                pygobject
		                                                pygtk
		                                                python
		                                                system-config-printer
		
cups		                                             cups
		                                                libglade
1) as a printer solution system-config-printer includes all the dependencies of gutenprint-ghostscript except ghostscript-fonts standard:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1994

2) both printer solutions need cups for proper functioning, system-config-printer needs in addition libglade (both libglade, and cups are already stock on porteus). I am not sure if without libglade gutenprint-ghostscript solution would work.

When calling gutenprint as a printer solution from PPM, it would be good that it did not call other packages in excess of ghostscript and ghostscript-fonts. There is no need for gimp for example. The interface for setting the printer will be CUPS or http://localhost:631/admin/.

When calling for system-config-printer as a printer solution from PPM, it would be good that all the packages you listed could be called except ghostscript-fonts, which does not seem to be necessary according to Quax (and to my testing done to date). The interface will be system-config-printer gui, which does not need a browser to function.

3) There is a third printer solution HPLIP, for which wread has developed a package for 32bit porteus edition only (to my knowledge):
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=457#p3212

I do not know if its been updated for porteus 2.0. It seems quite heavy in terms of MB. I would have to look at the available printers covered and see if it present any superior advantage.

I have seen gutenscript-ghostscript, system-config-printer, foomatic and hplip, all invoqued on Crunchbang OS to get the printer solution running.

There could be an advantage to have foomatic within the gutenprint-ghostscript solution. I do not know, I would have to test it.

For a more comprehensive solution you get into a more tailored approach. But for now, I do not think that we should go further. For example, for some Canon printers CAPT could be useful:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1983

It is easy to implement with two printer drivers. It will offer a number of additional Canon printers.

I would keep the three main printer solutions separate and see what is their respective coverage. And as we can see for big distributions, offer some threads for specific difficult printers.

Maybe wread should join up this discussion. He is the hplip specialist. I will return to hplip to see how it behave and what is its printer coverage.

I hope this answers to your questions. Please feel free to ask any additional questions.
Last edited by francois on 31 Mar 2013, 03:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#6 by Ahau » 25 Mar 2013, 19:16

francois -- I'd be happy to help review and/or edit your printing documentation, and I'm incredibly grateful for your efforts on this. I don't print from Porteus on a regular occasion so I'm still new to all of it, but I will definitely follow your guidelines and verify that everything works on my printer (a canon multifunction wifi printer).
Please take a look at our online documentation, here. Suggestions are welcome!

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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#7 by fanthom » 25 Mar 2013, 22:44

ok - will follow your advices regarding dependencies. i would skip hplip as it depends on qt and we want something universal across desktops.
so in PPM will have:
a) gutenprint+ghostscript
b) system-config-printer as alternative (python deps are scary)

print pack for porteus-2.1 may include all possible tools (Ahau decide)

thanks

EDIT:\\
updated 64bit official repo with new packages and necessary deps (dropped gimp from gutenprint).
all should be ok now :wink:
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#8 by wread » 26 Mar 2013, 00:40

BTW, what is the problem with qt???
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
The Porteus Community never sleeps!

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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#9 by francois » 26 Mar 2013, 01:48

@ahau:
Thanks for your offer. Your help is really appreciated. :)

@fanthom and others: Writing about printing helps me thinking about it. Print package with system-config-printer seems the more intuitive. It contains Gutenprint, which comprises a very wide database covering many manufacturers and models.

Concerning the hplip system of wread, I cannot say much about it. However, I have played around with hplip package alone (15.1 MB) without its dependencies. Hplip standalone database covers a wider variety of hp printers than gutenprint, which is quite natural as hp is manufacturing hp. However hplip, is very poor in terms of other manufacturers models.

Printing systems without CUPS weight.

system-config-printer 31.5 MB (if you add ghostscript fonts that weighs 3.5 MB, it will include completely the gutenprint-ghostscript system)
gutenprint-ghostscript 18.5 MB
hplip database 15.1 MB (hplip package only almost double the number of hp printers covered by gutenprint alone)
CAPT 5.8 MB (CAPT adds 11 additional printer model for the Canon manufacturer to gutenprint alone)
hplip total system 105 MB (optimal coverage of hp printers, but very poor coverage of other manufacturer models)
foomatic (I have to understand better the role of this package. At first glance it seems to make more efficient system-
config-printer)


Note:
CAPT: Canon printer LBP series (11 additional canon printer models to the gutenprint list of printers): LBP5100, LBP5300, LBP3500, LBP3300, LBP5000, LBP3210, LBP3000, LBP2900, LBP3200, LBP-1120/1210)

I will have a look at other distributions, debian-wise, to see if we miss anything important.

Cheers!
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#10 by brokenman » 26 Mar 2013, 03:06

BTW, what is the problem with qt???
The next version of Porteus will offer a choice of desktops. Some of these choices may not include qt4. For example the standard xfce or perhaps lxde.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#11 by francois » 26 Mar 2013, 11:48

Ubuntu and crunchbang print pack package list, some suggestions for additional drivers to the printer pack:

Code: Select all

The following extra packages will be installed:
  acl colord cups-client cups-common cups-filters cups-pk-helper ghostscript
  ghostscript-cups libcups2 libcupsfilters1 libcupsmime1 libfile-copy-recursive-perl
  libgs9 libgs9-common libgusb2 libgutenprint2 libhpmud0 libieee1284-3
  libpolkit-agent-1-0 libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0 libsane libsane-common
  libsane-extras libsane-extras-common policykit-1 printer-driver-gutenprint
  printer-driver-hpijs python-cups python-cupshelpers samba-common sane-utils smbclient
  system-config-printer-udev update-inetd
Suggested packages:
  cups-bsd printer-driver-hpcups hplip xpp ghostscript-x gutenprint-locales hpoj
  gutenprint-doc hpijs-ppds hplip-doc unpaper cifs-utils python-smbc python-gnomekeyring
  sessioninstaller
Recommended packages:
  fonts-droid
The analysis of these package did not yiel much for now. However, a look with synaptic package manager to the package list with the search word "print", gave me access to a huge number of printer drivers. I will have to come back on that. But the following post gives a preview. I think I am going to build a search list. It could become handy for those having not so common printers.
Last edited by francois on 31 Mar 2013, 03:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#12 by francois » 28 Mar 2013, 04:34

TABLE OF PACKAGES RELATED TO PRINTING ON A DEBIAN INSTALLATION
(from the synaptic package manager with search word print)

Code: Select all

LIST OF PRINTER PACKAGES UNDER DEBIAN
(maybe incomplete, but seems encompassing)

cups-ppdc
meta-printer-support
printer-driver-all
libgutenprint2 (all manufacturers, many models)
foomatic-filters (would permit the use of ppd thru CUPS and system-config-printer interface)
foomatic-db-engine
foomatic-db-compressed-ppds (all manufacturers, many models, does not seem to cover same database as gutenprint or hplip)
libcupsdriver1
printer-driver-c2050 (lexmark)
printer-driver-c2esp (Kodak ESP AiO and HERO AiO color) 
printer-driver-cjet  (canon LBP)
printer-driver-escpr (epson inkjet ESC/P-R)
printer-driver-foo2zjs (Zenographics ZjStream type or minolta and hp laserjet)
printer-driver-gutenprint (all manufacturers, many models)
printer-driver-hpijs (hpijs)
printer-driver-hpcups (hp-all)
printer-driver-m2300w (minoltamagicolor)
printer-driver-min12xxw (KonicaMinolta PagePro)
printer-driver-pnm2ppa (normally "Windows-only"HP Deskjet 7XX and 820 Series and HP Deskjet 1000)
printer-driver-ptouch (Brother P-touch QL-* and PT-* series)
printer-driver-pxljr (HP's Color LaserJets 35xx and 36xx driver from independent developer support for highest printout quality than hpijs) 
printer-driver-splix (Samsung non PCL driver for ML-15xx, ML-16xx, ML-17xx, ML-2xxx,CLP-5xx, CLP-6xx and Xerox Phaser 6100) 
printer-driver-sag-gdi (rastertosag-gdi non PCL driver for Ricoh Aficio SP 1000s/SP 1100s) 
printer-driver-postscript-hp
hpijs (hp hpijs)
hplip-data (hp ppds)
python-cups-helper.deb
cups-pk-helper.deb or cups-pk-helper.rpm
DETAILED DESCRIPTIONS OF SOME SELECTED PACKAGES:

1) foomatic (and other packages simply explained, citation from synaptic package description from crunchbang):

Code: Select all

Foomatic is a printing system designed to make it easier to set up
 common printers for use with Debian (and other operating systems).
It provides the "glue" between a print spooler (like CUPS or lpr) and
your actual printer, by telling your computer how to process files
sent to the printer.
In addition to foomatic, foomatic-filters might be of some use for system-config-printer.

2)rinter-driver-sag-gdi

Code: Select all

The rastertosag-gdi driver is an open source Linux driver for the Ricoh Aficio 
SP 1000s/SP 1100s printers. These are some of the few Ricoh printers which do 
not understand PostScript or PCL, but only a proprietary raster format.
3)gs IJS driver (hpijs):

Code: Select all

This package contains an IJS printer driver for Ghostscript, which
adds support for most inkjet printers and some LaserJet printers
manufactured by HP.  It is also required for HPLIP fax support.

The Debian package of hpijs includes the so-called rss patch, to use
pure black ink instead of composite black in printers that don't do
color map conversion in firmware.

HPIJS can take advantage of Ghostscript IJS KRGB support when
available, to enhance black printing on printers that do color
map conversion in firmware and are thus not affected by the old
rss patch.

Users of the CUPS printing system are advised to also install the
hplip package, and use the hp CUPS backend to send data to the printer.
HPLIP supports USB, networked and parallel-port devices, and enables
extended HPIJS functionality such as border-less printing.
Selecting any hpijs ppd in CUPS will use hpijs automatically.

HPIJS is meant to be used through the foomatic system (see the
foomatic-filters package).
4) system-config-printer-udev:

Code: Select all

These utilities allow to detect automatically printers using UDEV when they
are plugged on the system. They are then configured automatically in the CUPS
printing daemon and made available to users.
5) python-cups-helper:

Code: Select all

These Python modules, that come from the system-config-printer
distribution, help building applications and utilities around the CUPS
Python bindings
Ubuntu instructions to use system-config-printer:
https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/printing/C/printing.html
Last edited by francois on 03 Apr 2013, 17:34, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#13 by francois » 28 Mar 2013, 11:22

FEEDBACK:
I will make some cleaning in the above post to be more succinct.

Ubuntu and crunchbang print pack package list (see the second post above). If a few of you could comment on the addition of packages that seemed of interest to be added in terms of printer coverage, I will do further testing with CUPS and system-config-printer. I will try to provide the weights of these packages in the next communications. :)

TESTING:
Some packages have been already made available in porteus repo (thanks fanthom). If propositionsand testing of additional packages based crunchbang list provides extended coverage or seem to provide improved functionality at low weight cost. I will provide them on mediafire temporarily. I will come tonight or tomorrow with the firs porteus print pack candidate.

PRINTER TROUBLESHOOTING OR WHEN PORTEUS PRINTPACK DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU:
Printers by manufacturer and model and printer driver setup:
http://www.openprinting.org/printers
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Printers
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#14 by francois » 28 Mar 2013, 20:04

Testers needed PORTEUS PRINT PACK rc1 64 bit:

Download system-config-printer from PPM and put them in the same folder, i.e. /porteus/modules/system-config-printer:

Code: Select all

system-config-printer, dbus-python, foomatic-filters, ghostscript-9.05,ghostscript-fonts-std, gutenprint , notify-python, pycairo, pycups, pycurl, pygobject, pygtk, python
Other packages proposed for porteus print pack:

scanner:
- sane
- xsane
- simple-scan

Hp printers (this will provide an extended coverage over the gutenprint covered printers):
- hlip

Canon LBP printers:
http://www.mediafire.com/?y4mozpg46bqc26r
http://www.mediafire.com/?i941jfdbn91jofh

INSTRUCTION TO INSTALL THE PRINTER
Use of system-config-printer (usb and network, please comment):
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1994

Instructions from ubuntu that will be adapted for porteus eventually:
https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/printing/C/printing.html

PRINTER NOT COVERED BY PORTEUS PRINTER PACK
(please look in the following link to see if it has been reported to be linux supported and report in a thread in the porteus hardware sectionif not):
http://www.openprinting.org/printers
Last edited by francois on 29 Mar 2013, 19:26, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Printing: an opportunity to increase membership

Post#15 by francois » 28 Mar 2013, 20:29

Additional printer drivers. They cover an additional range of drivers, some would have to be converted from deb to xzm:

I have added a table of the package coming out from synaptic package manager debian with search word print on the first page of this thread. I am trying to look into these packages to see which could be profitable for porteus print pack.

Some examples, see also:
** to be added, seemed to be lost***
hp printer:
-hpijs
http://pkgs.org/ubuntu-12.10/ubuntu-mai ... /download/
hpcups
http://ftp.br.debian.org/debian/pool/ma ... _amd64.deb
- hpijs-ppds (ppds are another way for the printer system to recognize your printer):
http://ftp.br.debian.org/debian/pool/ma ... .1_all.deb

I will see if other packages from the u and c list of package would not be of the utmost utility this weekend.
Last edited by francois on 02 Apr 2013, 00:33, edited 3 times in total.
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