[IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

New features which should be implemented in Porteus; suggestions are welcome. All questions or problems with testing releases (alpha, beta, or rc) should go in their relevant thread here, rather than the Bug Reports section.
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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#31 by Rava » 12 Jan 2011, 23:44

fanthom wrote:BTW - switching to Porteus-v09 is obligatory as slax-remix is unsupported now - officially :)
Ohhhh... kay, then I do that as fast as I manage (which means: it takes a bit since I highly tweaked Slax 6.1.2 and Slax remix and will do so with Porteus as well... and so it takes a bit of time...

Anyway, off topic question:
Where to ask/discuss about if the non-KDE stuff of libraries and programs is already separated from the KDE stuff into 2 separate modules...

You know, about the "keep it separated so that KDE can run like wanted, but users using another X Window system (like XFCe :Yahoo!: ) all console programs like cdrecord and whatnot are still up and working, and the user can kick out the KDE-only-modules to replace them with her/his favorite ones...
(like XFCe :friends: )
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#32 by francois » 13 Jan 2011, 01:26

So it seems that the problem of the bootloader has been solved by falcony with grubinst, isn't? (good for window and linux) . For sure using neogrub or unetbootin Porteus install is also very interesting as one does not need to partition a disk with windows already installed.

Falcony's grub bootloader:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=145

Installing Porteus with unetbootin:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=108&p=351&hilit=unetbootin#p351
http://www.slax.org/forum.php?action=vi ... unetbootin
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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#33 by fanthom » 14 Jan 2011, 07:49

@francois
Well - i wanted to have one unified bootloader for Win and Lin users, but after short overview of existing bootloaders and features supported by them i know it's not possible.

The story:
Grub4dos is very close to win :) I have found that it even supports .jpg files through gfxmenu extension: http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/gfxmenu.htm.
It supports booting from NTFS (when syslinux not) and ISO but doesn't from REISERFS and XFS. That's why would need a second loader - LILO which supports booting from every possible media and fs: Comparison of boot loaders.
LILO is already there - so no problem :)

We have Grub4dos installer provided by Falcony (great job) so i just need to tweak our scripts to use it correctly and add gfxmenu extension.
Starting working on it.
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#34 by francois » 14 Jan 2011, 17:28

@fanthom:
I imagine a majority of people run multiboot linux systems with a least one windows partition. That is why grub for dos is so much an interesting option. But it might not be the case for those linux radicals hosting windows as guest thru virtualbox on top of their linux system.

Isn't lilo considered a little outdated?

Isn't grub legacy a lot more popular and familiar to those working with slax and remix? (menu.lst is easy to deal with). I agree that grub2 is too much cryptic, at least for me. Any divergent opinion on grub2 would be welcome. Maybe it is just that I am not enough familiar with it.

Why not proposing a few of those? Are the software involved that huge in size?

Anyway, maybe providing any other bootloader option as a module could be the solution.
Last edited by francois on 17 Jan 2011, 02:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#35 by Falcony » 14 Jan 2011, 17:39

We have Grub4dos installer provided by Falcony (great job) so i just need to tweak our scripts to use it correctly and add gfxmenu extension.
Starting working on it.
@fantom - please kindly tweak both templates for menu creaton (for clean install to empty fs on HDD/USB and for install toguther with windows) for boot options and other menu options - for better of your choice

Also please kindly check hdd.sh module - which detect HDDs on PC and show it(to separate with removable drive)

And one more thing:
Testing was deep for PCs with one phisycal HDD(with several partions on it) and several USB-drives
And I checked on several PCs with differnet Windows installed on HDD also(on different partitions).

But I do not test it for PC with several phisycal HDDs(not virtual HDD but real) - so for safety safe I disable installation to HDD for such PCs. If you have idea how to make it good and safe for users - please kindly share idea or implement

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#36 by Ahau » 14 Jan 2011, 17:52

I believe grub legacy can boot reiserfs and XFS. The size is also not much of a factor, IMO. The biggest issue with grub legacy is the inability to install it via windows.

Of course, I'm still a fan of having grub4dos installed by windows, but configured to chainload immediately to stage2 of grub legacy, thus unifying the configuration (all linux installers would install grub directly, and windows installers would only see/edit the grub menu), but that method has its issues as well, and I understand the reasoning behind not selecting it.

I think a grub module would be useful for the more experienced users, who might like to set up Porteus on ReiserFS and XFS. The hardest part would be writing an install script.
Please take a look at our online documentation, here. Suggestions are welcome!

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#37 by fanthom » 14 Jan 2011, 20:04

Everyone can provide his own implementation - nothing is decided yet. Best one wins.

I have stuck with BAT (windows) script for grub4dos. Does anybody know how the translate drive letters (C,D,F,J) to physical ones (like: \\.\PhysicalDrive2) in Windows?
The problem is that grubinst.exe wont accept F: as an argument and need (hd2) :evil:
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#38 by Blaze » 14 Jan 2011, 20:56

fanthom, look at this.
Linux porteus 4.13.3-porteus #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Sep 23 18:22:13 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600K CPU @ 3.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
MS-7A12 » [AMD/ATI] Tobago PRO [Radeon R7 360 / R9 360 OEM] (rev 81) » Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 K2 3200MHz C16

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#39 by Falcony » 14 Jan 2011, 21:32

@fanthom,

Regarding Windows installation prorgam

This is my opinion and how I would make Windows installation program if I have time

I think better do not use batch file at all - it is old and provide not powerful scripting solution

For installation of Porteus better to use Microsoft Visial Basic Scripts

VBScripts - could run at any Windows
Much more poweful than batch files
Much more easy for noob users - they need just click at grubinst.vbs file from Windows - no need to explain how to run Command Prompt

For example this simple code return a list of all the disk drives installed on a computer

Code: Select all

Set objFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") 
Set colDrives = objFSO.Drives 
 
For Each objDrive in colDrives 
    Wscript.Echo "Drive letter: " & objDrive.DriveLetter 
Next 
Save it in with *.vbs extentions and click on it

This simple code identifies the drive type (floppy drive, hard drive, CD-ROM, etc.) for each physical drive installed on a computer.

Code: Select all

strComputer = "." 
Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _ 
    & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strComputer & "\root\cimv2") 
 
Set colDisks = objWMIService.ExecQuery _ 
    ("Select * from Win32_LogicalDisk") 
 
For Each objDisk in colDisks 
    Wscript.Echo "DeviceID: "& objDisk.DeviceID        
    Select Case objDisk.DriveType 
        Case 1 
            Wscript.Echo "No root directory. Drive type could not be " _ 
                & "determined." 
        Case 2 
            Wscript.Echo "DriveType: "& "Removable drive." 
        Case 3 
            Wscript.Echo "DriveType: "& "Local hard disk." 
        Case 4 
            Wscript.Echo "DriveType: "& "Network disk."       
        Case 5 
            Wscript.Echo "DriveType: "& "Compact disk."       
        Case 6 
            Wscript.Echo "DriveType: "& "RAM disk."    
        Case Else 
            Wscript.Echo "Drive type could not be determined." 
    End Select 
Next 
Please kindly look to Microsoft Script Center Script Repository
http://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/scriptcenter/en-us

See it - many examples, many working solutions for different tasks

For disk operation examples please kindly review Storage>Disk Drives and Volumes

http://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/sc ... %20Volumes

BTW, please take in account one more matter - for Windows 7 and Vista first partition in not mapped to letter of drive

This partiton is hided.

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#40 by fanthom » 15 Jan 2011, 06:31

@Falcony
Thanks a lot for the tip.
Have no time to learn Vbasic now so putting away this project for a while. Should be back before first BETA with working solution :wink:
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#41 by Falcony » 15 Jan 2011, 07:17

Have no time to learn Vbasic now so putting away this project for a while.
If I have a time I would create Visial Basic script. But don't promice
Should be back before first BETA with working solutione
For batch files u need additional some kind system tool which list in command line disks and partions

Or command line for listing Registy - as information regarding disks and volumes is also stored in registry

Gootle it

If someone knows such tools - please kindly let us know

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#42 by Tonio » 15 Jan 2011, 20:12

IMHO (in my humble opinion), many folks have suggested excellent bootloaders. I like syslinux, although I have not tested it against ext4 to boot a usb disk, Has anyone got it to work? I like this the most since we can get the nice boot screen with the boot options, others like grub4dos, or plain grub. There is the tried and true lilio, but if many options are considered it is very difficult to cater to all users. Users using windows and the scripts, run as adminstrator, and install to flash disk. There are many overwhelming options, whichever bootloader one uses should depend on our installing option, ie., to usb disk, to hard disk as poor man's install (frugal) or as real installation. To not overwrite hard disk mbr and then successfully add porteus to it. I would only hope that there be documentation for each option, this way users can use what they already know and use the new options should they desire to use them. This would be for the users that want to install porteus without partitioning to NTFS disk running Vista/Windows 7?.

In following and carefully reading this thread, I am amazed by the knowledge and experience of the users, you guys are simply amazing and hope that your ideas don't get lost in here. I have used lilo(to boot Slackware), grub to boot Fedora, syslinux/extlinux to boot old slax from usb disk with ext3 partition, lilo to boot slax installed to XFS and also reiserfs. But have cheated(sometimes) to get it successfully installed :(, disconnected hard disk to not wipe out installation (dual boot/triple boot installations that I have had on computer(s) ) Keep sharing your methods, and please don't get upset if your method is not chosen, I hope that fanthom & brokenman can implement a menu system to cater to more users, something like

How do you wish to boot Porteus?
1 ----> syslinux/extlinux : ./extlinux.sh
2 ----> grub4dos : /.grub4dos.sh | grub4dos.bat
3 ----> unetbootin : /.unetbootin.sh | unetbooin.exe
4 ----> ntfsinstall : /.ntfsinst.sh | ntfsinst.bat
5 ----> plp | GAG | windows boot loader | freebsd\openbsd\netbsd\...\otherbsd loader | other boot loaders out there?

If there are many options to use, let the users decide which ones they want? What do you guys think?

I know this is more work to do, but if some are willing to do it? I am happy the way things are, but if you want to please more people these options/suggestions are there to think about.

My $0.02

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#43 by Falcony » 16 Jan 2011, 16:38

I like syslinux, although I have not tested it against ext4 to boot a usb disk, Has anyone got it to work?
I got. It works perfectly - but if you update syslinux and extlinux to 4 version(in Porteus is only 3.82)

Also this version of syslinux and extlinux support brtfs - but I didn't checked it as it unstable

Also LILO in Porteus is quite old version - 22.7.1 in boot directory and 22.8 in base module - this versions do not support ext4

Last version of 32-bit lilo could be found
http://fidoslax.googlecode.com/files/li ... -0.1.3.lzm

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#44 by Falcony » 08 Feb 2011, 16:47

grubinst updated

Added 2 scipts:

grub2xp.bat - to install Porteus to HDD together with Windows XP/NT/2000/Windows 2003

This script I checked, works fine

grub2win7.bat - to install to HDD together with Windows 7/Vista

Have no possability to check this script- have no Windows 7 installed near me or time to install.

Please try and test this 2 scripts.

It do not touch Windows bootloader and just add grub4dos to Windows boot manager menu - so if the second one do not work - it make no harm to Windows boot

For details see http://www.porteus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=145

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Re: [IMPORTANT] Boot loader for next release.

Post#45 by brokenman » 08 Feb 2011, 18:59

Thank you everyone. I guess the idea is to simplify things as much as we can. There should be minimal interaction with user when it comes to setting up Porteus. The user wants things to 'just work'. Tonio ... i have implemented a 'start_here.sh' script to use which offers various options (including documentation) and this could be used to choose a bootloader.

So as it stands ... we will go with the combination that uses the fewest bootloaders. Falcony i can try your grub2win7.bat. A GUI would be nice but it's going to add size so i prefer the batch file.
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