Feedback

Non release banter
Post Reply
0ldfart
Ronin
Ronin
Posts: 1
Joined: 15 Apr 2012, 02:26
Location: Adelaide

Feedback

Post#1 by 0ldfart » 15 Apr 2012, 02:50

Got a copy of Porteus to try as I need a persistent install USB linux for doing data recovery jobs.

This was to be a work project. I fix computers for a living.

Got ISO. Mounted ISO in Win. Read Install instructions - burned ISO to disk, booted to CD.

Got into Porteus. Found installer. Ran it.

Could not see USB. It was plugged in FAT32 F/S

Wondering whats going on, see note: "must be mounted onto partition"

Oh, Ok. Grab Gparted and format USB.

Search START for GPARTED. Not there.

Ok. Maybe I need to mount.

Search disks, find USB, Mount. Now I can see it in installer.

Great.

Run installer, and it gets to the end with something about running a script from /sdb1/boot

I eventially figure out how to run the script and cant see anything about setting up a bootloader, or anything else for that matter.

Ok. Makes no sense. Reboot and see if it works.

Reboot:

"remove disks or other media"

Ok. Not working this machine. Dont plan to go through that again, so will just try on this other machine to be sure.

Same result.

If installation is this difficult I dont want to find out how much time I will waste on the actual OS. I ended up just putting the CD in the bin.

Some feedback:

1. If you're referring to partitioning being a requirement in your installer, consider providing GPARTED.

2. Its not immediately apparent from the installer's dialogue that you have to separately MOUNT a USB drive to install to it. You guys who are old-school Linux geeks will be scratching your head wondering what I am talking about.

My point is that you're promoting your product as a transition from Windows. For Windows users, the notion of not being able to see a disk until its mounted is not available. This is especially confusing as the instructions just say to 'refresh' as though that will address the issue. It doesnt. Just creates confusion.

3. The post-install wording about running the script is nonsensical. I could see how to find and run the script, but could not see from the instructions, why I needed to do that, or what it would achieve. Its a bit difficult to understand from the wording thats there.

So anyway, Guys. This is feedback.

FWIW I dont want to have to 'figure out' and RTFM to use something as simple as a USB installer. From what I can see here on a product-development standpoint, there's some issues that are really frustrating and difficult to understand from an end-user standpoint.

Yeah, I get it, this is a hobby, and its free, and all the rest of it. But this is not really an ideal setup from my experience of using it. Actually I found it very confusing. It may be a pass-time for you, but professionals will actually pick up PORTEUS with a view to using it for professional applications. If it was a high-quality product it might gain some traction. The concept is great, but the implementation needs some work.

Good product design is intuitive for end-users. Anyone can use it simply, easily. (Pendrive Linux have products you would be familiar with that apply this maxim: find the Distro, find the Stick, click GO). It shouldnt be this difficult, or complex, in Porteus. Particularly as a first step in using the OS, (IE to INSTALL IT).

Intuitive was not what the experience of using the Porteus installer was for me, anyway, and I have a tech background of some 20 years. I hate to think what this would be like for the average Windows end-user.

Best of luck with Porteus. I appreciate your efforts but wouldnt be back in a hurry and would not be recommending to end users based on my experience with this build.

Just my 5c for what its worth.

User avatar
fanthom
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4586
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 02:42
Distribution: Porteus Kiosk
Location: Poland, currently - Cork, IE
Contact:

Re: Feedback

Post#2 by fanthom » 15 Apr 2012, 17:58

thanks for the feedback Oldfart.

"Porteus Installer" is still under development and is currently lacking partitioning tools.
to be honest: installation is very easy and takes only few seconds once usb stick is formatted and porteus data are copied onto it.

if you are still interested in this OS please have a look on detailed installation instruction which can be found in few places:
a) our website: http://porteus.org/info/docs/37-install ... -v-10.html
b) inside the ISO: /boot/docs/install.txt
c) even on youtube and youtube2

Cheers
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.

User avatar
francois
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 4984
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 14:25
Distribution: kde xfce porteus manjaro kubun
Location: Enfin l'été, le changement climatique attendu: le soleil.

Re: Feedback

Post#3 by francois » 19 Apr 2012, 03:20

Interesting comments. Its funny how with time we get to be familiar with a disrepair only seeing its qualities. At least mostly.

This type of comment has a reminescence or the smell of padre something or the one of which the name could not be mentioned.

Five cents might be too much. I would say not more than two centimes.

:evil:
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

User avatar
Ahau
King of Docs
King of Docs
Posts: 1331
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 15:18
Distribution: LXDE & Xfce 32/64-bit
Location: USA

Re: Feedback

Post#4 by Ahau » 19 Apr 2012, 14:52

We have an option in the install guide (as linked by fanthom above) to install from within windows as well. It is a "push of the button" affair there, though it requires disabling ACP for windows 7 and vista (which you should already be familiar with) and rebooting. Reformatting your partition should not be required for installing in any case, unless your usb drive is corrupted or using some exotic filesystem.
Please take a look at our online documentation, here. Suggestions are welcome!

User avatar
brokenman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5503
Joined: 27 Dec 2010, 03:50
Distribution: Porteus v3.2rcX all desktops
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Feedback

Post#5 by brokenman » 23 Apr 2012, 01:39

Thanks for the feedback. We don't get much negative feedback posted so it is valuable to hear things like this ... especially from someone with 20 years tech experience. I'll certainly take it into consideration for future development of the installer.

I'm sorry you couldn't figure out how to get it installed. As stated there are various methods to install porteus to USB (including using the pendrive linux option that you mentioned) that don't require much work. Probably the easiest way would be installing it from windows after reading the installation document.

I can understand some of your points about having to mount partitions being foreign to a windows user and will try to address this is future versions.

3. The post-install wording about running the script is nonsensical. I could see how to find and run the script, but could not see from the instructions, why I needed to do that, or what it would achieve. Its a bit difficult to understand from the wording thats there.
Perhaps our resident doc master can rephrase the wording so it is a little easier to understand. Sometimes i assume that fundamentals are understood by moderately skilled computer users.

Here are the parts i didn't quite get:

Got ISO. Mounted ISO in Win. Read Install instructions - burned ISO to disk, booted to CD.

Did you happen to see the part about installing porteus directly from windows? You just needed to double click on the win_start_here.hta file.

Run installer, and it gets to the end with something about running a script from /sdb1/boot
I eventially figure out how to run the script and cant see anything about setting up a bootloader

On the second screen (after choosing your partition) there is a very clear explanation that the default is to simply 'copy' the files to USB and that you should tick the 'install bootloader' box if you want a bootable porteus. This is to protect windows users from nuking there windows install. For a USB install theres not much to worry about and ticking this box would have rendered your other problems moot.

1. If you're referring to partitioning being a requirement in your installer, consider providing GPARTED

It doesn't refer to partitioning anywhere. It states that you must have a partition available to install porteus onto ... which is a given for ANY operating system really. Being a lightweight distro, gparted would add a considerable amount of space.

FWIW I dont want to have to 'figure out' and RTFM to use something as simple as a USB installer.

And you shouldn't have to. I could create a one click installer for a USB no problem (and have done) ... but this tool is designed to allow people the choice of installing to any partition ... both fixed and external drives or USB devices. For this reason a degree of complexity is required.

If you managed to burn the ISO to disk, and you plan on using it to fix windows boxes ... why not just boot from CD and load porteus into RAM?

Either way ... we appreciate the feedback and i sincerely hope you either return to use porteus, or find another portable distro that suits your needs.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

User avatar
wread
Module Guard
Module Guard
Posts: 1080
Joined: 09 Jan 2011, 18:48
Distribution: Porteus v3.2.5-kde5-64 bits
Location: Santo Domingo
Contact:

Re: Feedback

Post#6 by wread » 16 Jun 2012, 03:44

Very interesting feedback!

In other words, we should have in our iso an "INSTALL TO USB" direct option (Just under PloP-manager):

You put the even burned Porteus CD in, stick a new USB-pendrive and press enter,
a script removes the factory formatting from the usb and formats it ,say, with ext4,
copies the boot and porteus and makes the usb bootable. The machine says to take out the CD,
and reboots with the new pendrive. Voila!

Informations of what is happening should be introduced, that the user knows what the machine is doing.

Nothing more and nothing less.

That is a challenge for 1.2 final! :shock:
Porteus is proud of the FASTEST KDE ever made.....(take akonadi, nepomuk and soprano out and you will have a decent OS).
The Porteus Community never sleeps!

User avatar
brokenman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 5503
Joined: 27 Dec 2010, 03:50
Distribution: Porteus v3.2rcX all desktops
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Feedback

Post#7 by brokenman » 16 Jun 2012, 12:51

Interesting idea.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

Post Reply