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Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 19:03
by roadie
donald wrote:^
maybe a year, maybe 2 years. Porteus can't release until Slackware does.
I couldn't care less about having the latest version of the kernel or whatever program.
If it's not for Bug/Security fixes I would never bother upgrading my system...
..seems I'm getting old...(wise?)

I agree donald, there's really nothing new I need that Porteus doesn't cover....though Nemesis is fun to play with and it's opened some doors for me.

I've been old for quite a while.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 19:23
by Ed_P
roadie wrote:I have to say I'm a bit surprised to see this...there's not a lot to 'fix' in Porteus,
I agree, that's why fixing it will take less time. The primary fixes, in my mind, being kernel updates to handle more hardware. I got a new notebook for Christmas, Porteus didn't work on it. The 3.5 version didn't either.
Porteus can't release until Slackware does. Now, I'm fine with that as I have pretty basic needs,
Apparently I do also, and others here.
but the majority wants the newest and the shiniest, they don't want to wait 2 years for a new release.
That's fine, let the majority use a major Linux release like Ubuntu. Or Arch if that fits their taste.
donald wrote:
maybe a year, maybe 2 years. Porteus can't release until Slackware does.
I couldn't care less about having the latest version of the kernel or whatever program.
If it's not for Bug/Security fixes I would never bother upgrading my system...
Bug/security fixes and additional hardware support. Newer equipment and some older equipment.
donald wrote:..seems I'm getting old...(wise?)
roadie wrote:I've been old for quite a while.
Kids today, always complaining. :D

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 21:36
by brokenman
Please read through the entire thread, or at least the first three pages to understand the reasons behind switching base. It seems some people still don't get why, and that's understandable if you are looking at it from the point of view of one user, being you.
but I don't think it would be that difficult to make a new package manager for Porteus that would have the same features (downloading packages and automatically converting to .xzm)
I can tell you have never tried to write a package manager. It involves more than you may think. Add to that the server side scripts that need to work in tandem with the client side package manager and you have quite a task. Now add 5 different repositories to the mix, sometimes using different file and path names. Don't forget dependency resolution while you are there.
Again, I'm not hating Nemesis, I just don't see the point of it.
That's fine. I understand that. I can't make people see from my point of view, so for the most part I have stopped trying. I couldn't see the point of automatic cars at first. Why change to something more expensive that does the work for me?
I agree. It is easier to fix a car than build a new one. Same can be said for a house, a road, a toilet, etc.
Again, you are looking at this from the view of a user, that doesn`t have to build (and maintain) said car, house, toilet. They just receive this new distro and start using it. From my point of view, I would rather build a new car while keeping the future in my mind, so that I never have to touch that car again. It will run forever without my minimal intervention. Wouldn't that be more favourable (from my point of view) than fixing that old car you spoke of, again, and again and then again when some broken part gets upgraded. Have you any idea at all of the amount of work involved? Believe me when I say that if you could invest the time to build something from the ground up, with the intention of minimizing workload in the future, you should do it. That applies to a house, car or toilet.

I couldn't care less about having the latest version of the kernel or whatever program.
Fair enough. You have the right to that mindset as a user. However I have seen again and again on this forum people coming with new hardware that doesn't work with two year old kernels and Xorg packages. There are currently at least three threads about this very problem. As maintainer I have to think about other people.

That's fine, let the majority use a major Linux release like Ubuntu. Or Arch if that fits their taste.
Hang on, isn't being a little one sided? Much like ignoring people who choose to boot into a root account? Where would ANY distro be if they said to the MAJORITY of users .... "F$*K you This works for me and thats all I care about. Go elsewhere."

In short, try just a little to think from a different point of view. I am thinking from a point of view of reconstructing something, designing a system with a single goal in mind. To minimize future maintenance so that I can sustain the workload for a prolonged period. Burning out is another option I guess.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 21:43
by roadie
@Ed_P
That's fine, let the majority use a major Linux release like Ubuntu. Or Arch if that fits their taste.
All well and good, but is the Porteus user base large enough to make it worth brokenman's time, just to keep us old fogies happy?

Personally, I think Nemesis is coming along very nicely, and it probably has a better chance of working on your new notebook.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 22:05
by Jack
Here is a few question's

1. When will the next Nemesis be release?
2. How soon will there be a Mate version?
3. Can I use the current version and add Mate and dependency like I would add any other program?

What I do like about Nemesis you can keep it current and less work for brokenman and I hope it is true for him.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 22:50
by aus9
altho I could do this by pm to killermenpl let me explain to all those who think they weren't insulted why I was insulted.
I installed Nemesis on my USB stick for testing. I booted it up for a quick test if it even works for me (not every Linux distro works on my PC and I have no idea why). I like how Wi-Fi works without any extra configuration
This user needed help on Porteus and neko kernel that worked for his wifi device. And it was I that helped him.

Wifi on Nemesis worked out-of-the-box so when he wrote
For me it's just more work to get to where Slackware Porteus is right now.
The reality is Porteus was MORE work than Nemesis

Since killermenpl declared English is pretty good he can expect an official warning if I believe he is lying in any future posts.

I am tired of seeing people push their agendas and believe they can say something and not accept the consequences of their actions.

If other mods now feel I need to lose my mod powers so be it.

I don't like being lied to. I am human too.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 23:21
by roadie
@aus9

When killermenpl said "For me it's just more work to get to where Slackware Porteus is right now."....I took it as meaning that all the helper gui's aren't in Nemesis yet...Porteus Settings Center, that kinda thing....the eye candy.

Nobody is pushing agendas, just sharing opinions and wants. Hell, I very much doubt that brokenman is going to do anything except what he's capable of maintaining in the long term...he's said as much.

And, lets face it, if you're used to Porteus, Nemesis does present a learning curve....maybe killermenpl was thinking in those terms. I just don't see anything here.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 23:55
by Ed_P
aus9 wrote:I am tired of seeing people push their agendas and believe they can say something and not accept the consequences of their actions.
You looking in a mirror? :D You push Nemesis constantly, and sometimes almost aggressively. It's human nature to pick sides, have likes and dislikes, etc. It's also nice to be able to share those likes and dislikes with others and have others share their likes and dislikes with you. It's part of being human.
If other mods now feel I need to lose my mod powers so be it.
Not sure where that came from. But it's true a mod's postings reflect more on the forum than a mere member's postings.
I don't like being lied to. I am human too.
Of course you are and that means you make mistakes sometimes. Mistakes are almost what defines us as humans. :) Add in things like spell checkers, mouse jumps, Google translations and English as a 2nd language and sometimes what is posted is not what was meant to be said. And this is normal in forum postings. So, rather than taking things personally take them in stride. Relax and enjoy the ride. :good:

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 00:14
by Ed_P
brokenman wrote: I am thinking from a point of view of reconstructing something, designing a system with a single goal in mind. To minimize future maintenance so that I can sustain the workload for a prolonged period. Burning out is another option I guess.
I think we are all thinking about you Jay and your efforts and time and potential burnout and maybe expressing our concerns wrong. Maintaining a system that doesn't update often would seem to be easier to support and take less of your time and efforts and therefore not burn you out verses a system that updates constantly which implies updating to fix bugs and shortcomings.

Trust us, we are thinking of you.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 00:22
by killermenpl
brokenman wrote:
I agree. It is easier to fix a car than build a new one. Same can be said for a house, a road, a toilet, etc.
Again, you are looking at this from the view of a user, that doesn`t have to build (and maintain) said car, house, toilet. They just receive this new distro and start using it. From my point of view, I would rather build a new car while keeping the future in my mind, so that I never have to touch that car again. It will run forever without my minimal intervention. Wouldn't that be more favourable (from my point of view) than fixing that old car you spoke of, again, and again and then again when some broken part gets upgraded. Have you any idea at all of the amount of work involved? Believe me when I say that if you could invest the time to build something from the ground up, with the intention of minimizing workload in the future, you should do it. That applies to a house, car or toilet.
Makes sense. Now that you put it that way it looks to be the most logical thing to do. I did read through first 3-4 pages of this topic and they were mostly people arguing about systemd, which (according to quick Google search) is supposed to be better, but it is somehow connected to Microsoft and negates some Linux concepts(?). Correct me if I'm wrong in that statement.

@aus9
I really appreciate how yo helped me with Wi-Fi in my thread. When I was talking about "getting Nemesis to where Porteus is right now" I meant the settings centre and save.dat creator, not drivers and kernel. I was not pushing any agendas. I actually wanted someone to prove me wrong, and @brokenman did. Never have I ever lied to you. At least intentionally. Maybe I wrote my sentences in a way that would suggest something different then I wanted to tell.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 00:48
by brokenman
Keep your hats on. I don't believe anyone intended to offend anyone else. No titles will be stripped or hands spanked. We are all free to speak our minds, and this is encouraged. Please do so without any personal attacks. These will not be tolerated.
1. When will the next Nemesis be release?
2. How soon will there be a Mate version?
3. Can I use the current version and add Mate and dependency like I would add any other program?
1. Probably not for a week or two. I will start a thread asking for certain feedback on v3.5 and how it can e improved.
2. At the moment there is lxde and kde. I am not sure what desktops people prefer. mate, cinnamon, gnome? I will ask in the thread mentioned in point 1.
3. Yes. I encourage you to try. Do so from the xfce4 version and just do pman mate (or whatever the package is called). Read the mate arch wiki.
Maintaining a system that doesn't update often would seem to be easier to support and take less of your time and efforts and therefore not burn you out verses a system that updates constantly which implies updating to fix bugs and shortcomings.
Ok I understand this view point. Stability is one of slackware's strong points. One of the main points against slackware in some of the latest threads is exactly that it (slackware stable) doesn't update often. Moore's law is taking it's toll.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 01:58
by Jack
All,

All this is just my $0.02 cent below. But it is how I feel about it.

How I feel about Nemesis it like Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, openSUSE and there more. With all of those you can upgrade and install packages from a list. They take the fun out of learning about Linux. If I pick one of them I won't need to learn much cause to upgrade click on the upgrade button or to install a program just pick it from a list. One last thing this forum was smooth before Nemesis came out. If anything brokenman should have kept it a secret tell it was all most done.

For me I use Porteus 3.1 Mate and been over a year since any upgrade but it still works and it is small. I think the Porteus team has done a great job with Porteus (Slackware) and I think been real stable. I been waiting for the next Porteus (Slackware) release when and if brokenman will do it, but if not what ever he release will be great. I have learn a lot from the Porteus forum member.

Remember this how I feel.

Jack

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 29 Feb 2016, 02:13
by brokenman
Thanks for your feedback everyone. The decision has been made to go with slackware for at least another release while another strategy is decided upon. There are certain aspects of a rolling release that impact our modular design in a major way. Since this thread was started slackware has released a 14.2 beta and I believe a final release is imminent.

I will release a beta for people to test as soon as I can get the main desktops polished. Thanks to all and especially to those that have been helping me with testing betas.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 29 Feb 2016, 03:49
by Ed_P
I believe you have made the right choice at this point brokenman. And we will all support you.

Re: The future of Porteus

Posted: 29 Feb 2016, 21:06
by tzok
I'm not a great Linux fan. In my everyday work I use mainly Windows. However I have used Slax, and then switched to Porteus, as a lightweight recovery platform. Actually I still use Porteus 3.0 x86 with the LXDE desktop. Tools I need to have are web browser (I prefer Firefox), dc3dd or dcfldd, gparted, dmde, smartctl, and fdisk. I need it to be light (preferably under 200MB) and run on 10+ year old machines. Another feature which I like in Porteus is support for a variety of WiFi cards.
Slackware is a classic Linux, often seen as Linux for pros and IT geeks (aside with Gentoo and PLD). It is raw, but fast. On the other hand, as a synonym of reliable Linux platform I always consider Debian. Probably most other Linux newbies - if they have any experience with Linux it was either Debian or Ubuntu. Arch Linux is even more exotic than Slackware. So in my opinion - if you were about to switch to other distro it should be Debian, but I don't thing this would allow to keep Porteus light enough.