Syria 2017...

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Syria 2017...

Post#1 by Rava » 08 Apr 2017, 13:56

Best to create a new thread instead of answering where it's off topic...
francois wrote:@rava:
What do you think of the Trump attack on Siria following Bachar El Assad sarin gaz against its own population? It seems that the great friendship between Putin and Trump has just ended. :twisted:
Well, even the UN said that the Assad military has no chemical weapons, so it must have been someone else. Only 3 darn countries agreed with the most recent air strike of Trump against mainly civilian targets: UK, Israel and Germany. Shame, my own county again plays the warmongering part...
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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#2 by Blaze » 08 Apr 2017, 14:41

following Bachar El Assad sarin gaz against its own population
Where is the proof?
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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#3 by francois » 09 Apr 2017, 04:14

Carpe diem. B)

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#4 by Rava » 10 Apr 2017, 10:22

@francois
But the most recent UN observers said that Syria no longer has any chemical weapons. When you cannot trust the UN, who can you trust.
And you give as source USA and UK based media. The same media that lied together with the government and military to start a few wars:
Korea
Vietnam
Quite some in Middle and South America
and the most recent: against Saddam Hussein, that was the war that caused the mess in Syria and Iraq as well. To say he would have aided religious hardcore terrorists when he was the region leader with the least religious approach was so wrong on so many levels. He indeed had poison gas in the past, but we all know that he had no weapons of mass destruction when the US and UK invaded Iraq...

It is not about the freedom of the people, or to shield them against aggression or war. Then the US would have avoided some massive genocide in Africa in the past years, but they did not care cause: there have been no resources for them to get cheaply.
Like Korea, Like Vietnam, Like Panama, like Iraq, so is Syria: it is all about cheap resources, and in the last 2 countries it is Oil.


So, quoting only USA and UK media who in the past lied repeatedly to agree to wars that later were proven to be started out of other reasons (power, greed, money)... if there are no better sources, like the UN, or more independent media... then these 3 articles won't really sit well with me.</rant>
As we have a saying in German "Wer einmal lügt dem glaubt man nicht, wenn er auch die Wahrheit spricht." ("A liar will not be believed, even when he speaks the truth") or as you say it "Ever heard about the boy who cried wolf?" or "Once a liar, always a liar" ...


And when it comes to the "Western Standards" of: Human rights and such. Where are the USA, being prosecuted for all the war crimes since the Korean war. (They also did some war crimes in WW2, but almost everyone did back then. Oh happy days </sarcasm>.) When the UK or USA speak of human rights and such, they should drag their own political and military leaders of the mast to the international court for war crimes in Den Hague first. Everything else is just lip service.
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#5 by Tonio » 10 Apr 2017, 16:58

IMHO this is a false flag and Mr. Trump fell into the trap of the warmongers who said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It is really sad that USA gets into others' business when no one is calling them. They still want to cause regime change and get rid of Assad and like General Wesley Clark said they want to take out 7 countries in ... yrs. They messed up Libya and Iraq, they are in Afghanistan they want to control Syria and Iran. Who are they to do this? Who gave them that right? I agree with Rava on this one! and others like Blaze. They need to show the proof and not just stories of he did this or he did that to his own people Where were they when Mr. Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds? They did not care! All of a sudden they care? They are out to destroy countries and put in puppets that respond to them. Someone please STOP these bad guys!
The Military Industrial Complex is the one that is operating and causing all these troubles. ISIS and the AL QAEDA, and all the others are creations of these BAD Guys to destabilize the region and take over the resources. Also the BANKSTERS will profit from these illegal wars and they are the only ones who win :(

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#6 by Blaze » 10 Apr 2017, 17:56

francois, it's fake articles.
The State Department likes to look for the truth on facebook :ROFL:
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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#7 by francois » 11 Apr 2017, 02:26

I like to discuss and debate. Even if I am wrong. This way I might learn something.

I agree that a possibility could be that the rebels had stolen some of the sarin gas. And that it could be that the bombers bombed thar rebels cache without knowing what they were doing.

Do you have enlightning articles on the topic that you find more credible?
Carpe diem. B)

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#8 by Ed_P » 11 Apr 2017, 04:04

francois wrote:I like to discuss and debate. Even if I am wrong.
:D :good:

Well, I think Putin was upset with the gas attack and instructed Trump to do the bombing so as to not break his alliance with Assad. And he didn't want the airbase runways damaged so his jets could still use them so told Trump to not damage them.

Voila!! 8)

:D
Ed

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#9 by Rava » 11 Apr 2017, 16:38

It is all quite complicated, especially since most "free" western media only tells what the big corporations and international war mongers want them to tell.
Just try to get the book "Mit der Ölwaffe zur Weltmacht". The author is half USA / hald German ancestry. He wrote the same book in German, and in English. I am not really sure about the English title. Something like "With the Oilweapon to World Domination" or "Using the oil weapon to get world domination".
Link to the German edition: https://www.amazon.de/Mit-%C3%96lwaffe- ... 3938516194

The Oil minister of the United Arab states said "this is the only book [so far] that tells the truth of what really happened with the two Oil crisis in the early and late 1970th..." And he, as the Oil minister of the states that got so very rich due to all that, he sure would know what to talk about.

But when I bought the German Edition (I visited a bookshop to just hear him speak and bought the book right away, even when he told more details in person and not dared to write everything in the book)
Still, at that time the English edition was out of print, and even when people wanted to buy it, the publisher was pressed to not print it again. And on Amazon you currently only find the German edition...
But maybe it is available somewhere on the web. At least the author want the people to know, he might have "leaked" his own book as epub or pdf ...
You folks can try your search-fu. The book is really worth the read.

The powerful and ugly elite just don't want to let the truth be known. [*cough* The reality is more sinister like the best spy novel ever could be. *cough*] =@
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#10 by francois » 11 Apr 2017, 17:51

I found the english titles on french wikipedia with the author's name:
F. William Engdahl

The english edition is available in canada:
https://www.amazon.ca/Century-War-Anglo ... 1615774920


Interesting, I will buy it.

Thanks.
Carpe diem. B)

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#11 by Tonio » 11 Apr 2017, 22:30

@Rava
The media in US, Canada, Mexico etc. Only say what they are allowed to say. You are correct. There are folks who say that there is a global conspiracy to control people and the resources. Get rid of borders, etc. However not all folks agree with this.
@Francois
If you can take a look/search for General Wesley Clarke youtube speech that ... will take out 7 countries in 5 years. All of this has been preplanned. Look at all the damaged the International coalition has done to Libya. Iraq has not become stabilized. The bad "hombres" as Mr Trump calls them have terrorized people. In UK there was a terrorist doing bad stuff. In St Petersburg, there were some explosions. It will take time, but hopefully all these bad people that have commited these atrocities be brought to justice.
Don't believe the media, they are bought out. Read alternate media.

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#12 by Rava » 12 Apr 2017, 14:29

francois wrote:I found the english titles on french wikipedia with the author's name:
F. William Engdahl

The english edition is available in canada:
https://www.amazon.ca/Century-War-Anglo ... 1615774920
That's the one. And the title image is highly on-topic. It shows the British troops, during World War 1, when the Canadians and Australians bled to death in Flandern, the British said "Sorry, we have to invade a peaceful country in the Middle East, cause we heard about what petrol and especially Diesel will be able to do. So we are going into the Near and Middle East [the names Near East, Middle east and Far east are all Eurocentric anyway...] instead while our allies are bleeding for our cause in France. :x

Back in that time, it took the most heavy warships two weeks to refuel with coal, but with Mr. Diesel and his invention, the Diesel engine, the Brits have been the first to realize how that will revolutionize the warfare: it only takes half a day to completely fuel the same sized war ship... and they have been the first to go into the countries that have the most oil...
francois wrote:Interesting, I will buy it.
Hopefully it acts as the same eye-opener for you as it did for me.

And I fully agree with all 3 reviews, especially the longer one by one "Vuthy Chrun".
I eager await your thoughts on the book, francois. It took me only a few days to read it. It is a long, detailed book but it's all about the reasons for the most wars in the last century and this century. Like a compelling political spy thriller... with the plot twist that it's a factual book and no fiction. :) And because it explains so much and shows connections where one thought there were none, at least I read it quite quickly...

Just a tip: Don't order it online, go to a local bookshop and when they ask for your name for the order, use a fake one. "They" record all buyers of all and any "unwanted books", and folks have gotten into trouble because of that. Like, one female peace researcher ordering books, scientific books about the Israel-Palestine issue. And at the border this info (and only this info, not one of these books have ever been banned) was enough to refuse her entry into Israel.
Tonio wrote:@Rava
The media in US, Canada, Mexico etc. Only say what they are allowed to say.
Sadly, much media in Russia and China is not that much better, they have other issues, but they also serve other masters, and if a small poor country with resources gets under the thumb of: USA, UK, China or Russia is not that much different... Or do you think when people in such country protest against the Chinese, or against the Russians they would say: "okay, we build you the streets, and/or train tracks, now you don't want to give us the promised resources, so we just leave"... No, they would want the resources.

But unlike the USA or the UK, the Chinese and Russians at least tell the poor country what the deal is about: "We build you the roads, and/or train tracks and help you with the setup for train operations, and in return we get the resources for a good price"
That might not be the best solution for a poor country, but it is still more honest, and a way better solution like the lies the USA and UK tell the international media, and start yet another war like in: Korea. Or Vietnam. Or Panama. Or against Iraq (Saddam Hussein) Or... Or... Or... :x
Aside from the idea to torn 7 countries apart in the next years. And when they say so, and start with Iraq and Syria... still the media won't make that one hell of a big headline story...
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#13 by francois » 13 Apr 2017, 03:42

F William Engdahl (1992).
A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New ...

1992 is the date of publication. A little outdated to explain the actual situation. But maybe interesting if there is an historical perspective ...

Misinformation and conspiracies.

I think that we are quite well informed in Montreal about what is going on in the world. We have four universities with graduate studies which have solid reputations all around the world. Amongst them McGill university.

Our TV news abound of discussions on the international situation with an array of experts coming from the academic and research milieu. To name only one Charles Philippe David, a specialist in strategic studies:
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Philippe_David

Note that Canada was not involved in Irak after september 2001. Our government concluded that there was not sufficient evidence to motivate a military intervention.
Carpe diem. B)

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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#14 by Rava » 13 Apr 2017, 16:37

francois wrote:F William Engdahl (1992).
A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New ...

1992 is the date of publication. A little outdated to explain the actual situation. But maybe interesting if there is an historical perspective ...
I think you will be quite surprised that such an old book can still explain so much about the current situation. At least that's how I see it.

It sure would be nice if he would make an updated version) of the book, and includes all background (hidden facts) of wars because of oil and other resources.

But... I think he still gets pressed by certain groups to stop publishing the old books, and especially not writing new stuff... :%)

Sadly, the article on Charles-Philippe David is only in French... I did have French in Gymnasium [an academic high school, Br. grammar school, in German-speaking countries] but it was the only school subject I ever had to use private tuition. Nope, I never was good in French. [And now I am more interested in either Italian or Spanish than French...]
Cheers!
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Re: Syria 2017...

Post#15 by Tonio » 13 Apr 2017, 18:40

The old book hits the nail in the head! I am surprised it is very accurate and historical as well. Has details on Napoleon and Duke of Wellington at Waterloo.
There is a series called "The untold history of the united states" by Oliver Stone. It goes through untold stuff with cia and fbi, kennedy assassination, etc. The Warren Commission, the 911 stuff, etc.
@Francois
I believe Rava explains very well his viewpoints on the issue and by seeing many injustices and no proof of what they accuse, they just want war. There is also North Korea and there have been provocations there as well. What does North Korea have? No oil, only WMDS right? And the say Iran is building WMDS also, but where is the proof? And who have they attacked?
The MIC (Military Industrial Complex) profitting from these wars of agression and the banksters as well :(

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