manjaro or ubuntu

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istinnjazz
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#16 by istinnjazz » 08 Aug 2016, 19:05

neko wrote:I think that the most essential of Porteus is the small size.
There could be versions stripped out to the bone. Even without x for the brave. This is not an issue with manjaro or any arch. But I do not suggest a basic release without x. A documented method to experiment with x versions, why not.
neko wrote: it might not be appropriate to employ an original package manager (pacman or apt/dpkg) directly.
But on the case that the reason of applying other distro to Porteus is to use its package manager,
it might be better to use original distro.
I'm afraid I will disagree. Although I think I understand neko's motives, I know systems like arch are developed by design on top of tools such as pacman. Those tools have to be there no mutter what else tools will be developed and will be on porteus side. If you do this you may loose future evolution, loose other pacman dependent tools, and probably many classic arch users. Your distribution then will not follow the arch core directives...This is a core part of the arch rolling architecture. If you stay away from it (with a reason), you will building something different, probably incompatible and with unpredicted behaviour. Not for me.
Manjaro for example, have some of its own tools, users consider it a different distribution and it is, it has its own repository (pretty much the same kind of software with arch) but it respects almost all fundamental arch tools, and pacman is one of them, you cannot bypass it without painful consequences.

I think developers and users will have to stay on well supported paths, and join forces if possible with relevant communities for any reason or on going needs.
I cannot say much about ubundu, but i guess similar principles apply on their core architecture tools.

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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#17 by neko » 09 Aug 2016, 03:22

istinnjazz wrote:
If you stay away from it (with a reason), you will building something different, probably incompatible and with unpredicted behaviour.
I think so too.

For example, gnumeric package:
Its locales can be stripped to be smaller.
And for a specific locale, the specific locales can be gathered from ones that were stripped and pooled.

Build gnumeri version is 1.12.31.
Pool locale of gnumeri version is 1.12.30.
It doesn't have a correct gnumeric locale at all.
Because gnumeric mo name includes its version number.
gnumeric-1.12.30.mo, gnumeric-1.12.30-functions.mo

Already I have cared this issue.
But there maybe are many unknown issues.

Thanks.

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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#18 by istinnjazz » 09 Aug 2016, 07:05

neko wrote:
istinnjazz wrote:
If you stay away from it (with a reason), you will building something different, probably incompatible and with unpredicted behaviour.
I think so too.
For example, gnumeric package:
Its locales can be stripped to be smaller.
This is an issue out of millions out there. I would not blame pacman for this, instead I would help arch community if I could to fix the issue. If not, I would live with it (if not so serious - dangerous) or find alternative ways to overcome it.

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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#19 by francois » 09 Aug 2016, 10:28

@Jay:
Is there a possibility for having the arch-manjaro module wrapper as a stand-alone program?
No, the wrapper simply calls the real package manager to do the work, then does its own thing once it finishes.
I understand that pacman is needed, a wrapper is a wrapper. What I meant is could the wrapper be a stand alone program? This way it could be installed for example on the manjaro net edition or on a stripped down manjaro edition or X only edition. Naturally, I am not doing any pressure right now. I understand that this is to come after porgeus 3.2 :)
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#20 by brokenman » 10 Aug 2016, 00:08

I am not familiar with the Manjaro net edition but it can certainly be used if the following requirements are met:
1) aufs is compiled into the kernel
2) squashfs tools is available
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#21 by brokenman » 10 Aug 2016, 01:10

I have to say I really like the new 'discourse' forum that Manjaro is using. Seems like a more advanced and up to date kind of forum.
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#22 by francois » 10 Aug 2016, 01:41

These guys, including istinjazz, are as rigorous as those from arch linux, but as opened, generous and friendly as those of porteus. :wink:

From what I understand philm is the main developper. Not pretentious at all, very present, and much helpful. Almost as much as our developpers. :D
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#23 by istinnjazz » 12 Aug 2016, 11:46

brokenman wrote:I have to say I really like the new 'discourse' forum that Manjaro is using. Seems like a more advanced and up to date kind of forum.
It is indeed a step ahead. At the beginning it is a hate or love it situation, at the long term every one will probably like it. Many new exotic features for a forum, a move towards the mobile side.

Just a thought for this forum:
A tag extension, like https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtop ... &start=255
could help taxonomy a bit.
I guess it is very difficult, if not impossible, to find a post like this one without extensive search for a nemesis user. Tags could help reveal "hidden" topics under a helpful name, e.g. "nemesis" "tutorial" "kernel" ...

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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#24 by francois » 18 Aug 2016, 05:22

@hamza:
Could we do something like what is proposed by istinjazz?
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#25 by Blaze » 18 Aug 2016, 16:47

francois, yep, but need to update phpBB 3.0.x to phpBB 3.1.x
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Re: printing-3.2 for porteus 3.2

Post#26 by Falcony » 05 Dec 2016, 08:57

Blaze wrote:Ed_P, if Porteus will be based on arch - it would be solved with commands like this:

Code: Select all

pacman -S libcups cups cups-filters ghostscript gsfonts simple-scan hplip python-dbus foomatic-db foomatic-db-engine foomatic-db-nonfree foomatic-filters 
and you can choose which packages you need (exclude and include).[/quote]

If... I used Arch Linux more then five years and know this distribution well. It is very buggy distribution, slow, big - and dirty.
And it has inside very inconvenient background for live distro - things like systemd, etc.

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Re: printing-3.2 for porteus 3.2

Post#27 by Falcony » 06 Dec 2016, 08:23

Blaze wrote:Falcony, I mean OpenRC (not systemd) with abilities Manjaro Linux and it was example.
I see it is ex. but look up Arch from different points of view.
It is unstable itself, but ok - it have big community - it is plus.
Well we start it with OpenRC. What next? Officially OpenRC isn't supported by Arch team(https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC).
So any problem with booting process and we will have answer "Please use systemd".

Manjaro Linux - hmm... It have several polished versions but again - it is Arch - with systemd as backend. And very small developers communitty- like ours. Any problem with this team and Porteus will have this problem as heritage.

Have you other ideas?

If Porteus team would like to save its power and use power of another community it needs to use some popular distribution with big community and support. But problem here is that most of them use systemd. Systemd is kinda stupid things regarding booting process, security, logs(it is binary etc), nobody knows how it operates excepts its developers. It is really not good in case at live distribution at all.

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Re: printing-3.2 for porteus 3.2

Post#28 by Blaze » 06 Dec 2016, 18:52

Falcony, your messages moved to this topic.
Thanks for your point of view - that actually makes a lot of sense.

BTW, https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/openrc/

Code: Select all

First Submitted: 	2012-11-09 21:19
Last Updated: 	2016-11-14 13:21
4 years of supporting...
Linux porteus 4.13.3-porteus #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Sep 23 18:22:13 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600K CPU @ 3.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#29 by francois » 06 Dec 2016, 22:13

Manjaro Linux - hmm... It have several polished versions but again - it is Arch
Brokenman came out quite rapidly with a very interesting porteus version based on manjaro. The main problem is the rolling distribution. This is why ubuntu was foreseen with its stable release.

More om nemesis` fate next year. 8)
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Re: manjaro or ubuntu

Post#30 by neko » 07 Dec 2016, 06:09

@Falcony
wrote "Have you other ideas?"

I am trying archlinux package with "systemd" using own package management.
There are some issues, especially about generated by systemd.
The reason is my lack of knowrage on "systemd".

"Arch packaged Porteus" Russia sample version.
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4997&start=90#p49911

Thanks.

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