Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announcement.

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Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announcement.

Postby fanthom » 16 Apr 2014, 20:17

Hi guys,

As per this announcement, you can post any feedback you think is valuable.

Thanks, Fanthom.
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.
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Re: Feedbacks about "Why porteus.org was suspended ?"

Postby Slaxmax » 16 Apr 2014, 21:21

Option D is good too, but not all are willing to pay for the service.
I know it's hard maybe is better to create a script dialog (for linux) running in local pc to build the iso downloaded from the server ponce.
I do not know how it could be made ​​in microsoft windows.
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby Ed_P » 16 Apr 2014, 21:38

Was extremely surprised to see the "suspended" message. Which turned to worry when it stayed around for as long as it did. And VERY happy/relieved to see the forums back. :Yahoo!:

d) ..... Keep desktop wizard running but introduce a charge for using it (like 5$ per ISO).

That will kill it for almost everyone looking to try Porteus. And will only get some use by current Porteus users looking to upgrade to a new release. IMO

c) Rent dedicated server just for Porteus so it wont affect the clients anymore. This option costs about 710$ per year. In 2013 we have gathered little above 800$ (thanks a lot for that). Unfortunately there is no guarantee that in every year we can make the target so this option is not perfect.

This option could work if you have a Contribution Campaign once a year to help with any projected shortfall.

I can see only 3 options in regards to Porteus popularity/generated traffic:

a., b., c., d. :lol:

Jay and Hamza (Brokenman Hosting)

??
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby att » 16 Apr 2014, 22:42

Hello,

I propose a different solution.

If I want to avoid excessive traffic, I would simply put up all the ISOS and modules etc. on Usenet.
Paid usenet providers are as cheap as 50 Euros per YEAR - if you use "premiumize.me".
They have a retention of 1000 days, which is more than enough.
All the heavy traffic goes to the usenet providers - or you can use "googlecode.com" and put the heavy traffic hogs there.

Other services to consider is "mega.co.nz" , etc.etc.etc. - YMMV.

What do you think? Let me know...
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby brokenman » 17 Apr 2014, 02:13

I would simply put up all the ISOS and modules etc. on Usenet.

The problem is not the premade ISO files. It is the generated ISO files from the web wizard. From reviews that I have read (and heard) the web wizard is one of our great assets, but as Fanthom says each person may be creating 2 or 3 different ISO's just because they want to try something, or change something. This is not a problem during most of the year but on release days we feel the impact. These alternative storage sites generally have pretty miserable download speeds at times.

I propose a basic wizard through which users can generate a basic ISO with no advanced features free of charge. This allows anyone to quickly generate and try Porteus. If they care to read documentation, then from there they can download extra components and add them. The other option would be the advanced wizard with more options (including cheatcodes, custom passwords etc) which we could charge a small affordable fee.
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby freestyler » 17 Apr 2014, 02:45

I think all linux should be free. The iso builder is not really necisary but it is awesome, espesially for new users.
I got no problems donating money to keep porteus alive
https://www.porteus-apps.org
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby francois » 17 Apr 2014, 03:24

I propose a basic wizard through which users can generate a basic ISO with no advanced features free of charge.

Best idea mentioned yet. I buy that. 8)
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby freestyler » 17 Apr 2014, 03:35

How bout standard iso for each De. And a wizzrd to make the setting modules. That way users can download the iso make a setting module and add any extras like printing etc.
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby brokenman » 17 Apr 2014, 04:06

I propose a basic wizard through which users can generate a basic ISO with no advanced features free of charge.

To be clear, the user could also enter 'advanced mode' and have access to all advanced features for a small fee. The price of a beer.
The 'basic' mode would be exactly that. Basic. Something that beginners can't build a useless ISO with. Just a choice of modules they want and no settings changes.
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby Rava » 17 Apr 2014, 05:05

brokenman wrote:I propose a basic wizard through which users can generate a basic ISO with no advanced features free of charge.


Especially when we are able to have all the free basic variants pre-created and sitting on ponce.cc already. That would not generate much traffic on the main server...
__________________________________________________________

I also think, option D is the best one, but I would reduce the payment...
__________________________________________________________

And I suggest an extended D version, let's call is "Variant E", and that goes like so. The wizard as we know is now to be paid, but there are the most pre-created ISO's available for free as well as in, the most used wizard variants, like, the top 15 or top 20) in a wizard alike look and feel from the main site.

(And by top 15 or top 20 I don't mean we should be technically picky about the rank, you folks should look into what variant got asked, and put too similar variants together, and so maybe less than 15 or 20 make even sense...)

I presume you have such statistics. Like, the most used 10 or 20 variants of what users created using the wizard since 3.0 came out.

Why should these variants be shown as "free" variants, in a wizard similar style (by look and feel), and just direct to ponce.cc's already ready ISOs, you might ask?

Because

1) I foresee many users thinking "it's free software, and I want it as free as in 'free beer'..."
We on here know that free software is foremost about free as in "free speech", not "free beer", but nontheless, people like so exist.

2) Then there will be folks that want to try out Porteus for free to see if it's what they like. Quite some of these won't be happy to have to pay for the 1st time trying...

For all the above users, and that includes new users & old users alike, would greatly profit from the most uses / selected 10 (I recommend 15 or 20) variants of Porteus for free.


Why the wizard like look and feel of the pre-made Porteus variants?
Just so that users can easily see what (s)he would get by using the wizard. Heck, some even might diownload more than one of these ISO's to see fro themselves what changes got made inside the ISO...
maybe some did so with the wizards in the past already...



What do you think of my idea? Variant E sounds good to me. :D
Cheers!
Yours Rava
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby fanthom » 17 Apr 2014, 06:30

i could go with brokenman proposition but i'm still skeptic about it.
i imagine that this is a common scenario for the newcomers even for a basic wizard with no advanced options:

a) fresh user comes to porteus.org and sees the wizard: "what i cool thing :)". obviously he misses the note at the end:
Code: Select all
Desktop Web Wizard takes an impact on our server resources and bandwidth so please consider making a donation ... blah blah blah - who would read that



b) he wants to try EVERY desktop possible because they all look attractive so starts generating them: 5 x 200MB

c) then he realizes that Porteus browsers may also look cool so adds another two for chrome and opera: 2 x 200MB

d) oh crap! forgotten about nVidia driver: 1 x 200MB

e) damn - i need nVidia legacy for my card: 1 x 200 MB

f) printing - yes i have a printer in the basement, maybe i'll use it one day? 1 x 200 MB

g) (thanks God he does not go with 'development' as he does not compile: 0 x 200 MB)

and that's giving us: 10 x 200 MB = 2 GB of bandwidth just for one user :)
most of that could be avoided by reading this note:
Code: Select all
Standalone ISOs/modules can be downloaded from dl.porteus.org

and some doc about handling modules (/base, /modules, /optional).

another proposition: maybe we could 'unlock' only one desktop: for example KDE4 (eye candy and feature rich) and introduce a fee for the other ones?

if we decide to go with a fee just for 'advanced options' then i would go with freestyler proposition about creating a 'settings' module (same as in kiosk - 003-settings.xzm which holds pretty much everything) and pulling some features from kiosk wizard into the desktop one:
- set your own wallpaper as everyone wants to have his girl/boy friend on the desktop instead of a ship with malfunctions: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=2889&p=19960#p19960 (another hilarious one, just below the 'jumping cow' thread)
- change default browser homepage from http://porteus.org/forum to something useful
- configure printer from the wizard interface level and pull 11MB printing module instead of our current 70MB (sometimes i think i'm awesome)

no other ideas at the moment.
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby fanthom » 17 Apr 2014, 10:05

I know it's hard maybe is better to create a script dialog (for linux) running in local pc to build the iso downloaded from the server ponce.
we had that for the kioks 2.x line:
http://dl.porteus.org/i486/packages/kiosk/porteus-kiosk-wizard-v2.1.1-noarch.run
and people had some troubles with it like wrong terminal size (had to be maximized), lack of tools to build the ISO, incompatible tools (afair - Debian has cdrkit which works differently) or proxy support.

Was extremely surprised to see the "suspended" message. Which turned to worry when it stayed around for as long as it did.
24 hours is not that long :)

a., b., c., d. :lol:
now you know why the break was needed

Jay and Hamza (Brokenman Hosting)
brokenman and Hamza have a hosting company which is serving our website/forum for free but we have decided (actually i did) that from now on porteus.org will be paying as every other client (about 150$/year) from the money gathered though donations and DDG search engine. this still does not solve the bandwidth problem on the release day so we have to either migrate to a dedicate server (which is more expensive) or cut desktop wizard usage somehow.

I think all linux should be free.
it is free. you can get everything from ponce.cc without restrictions. we just cant kill brokenman's clients anymore as his hosting business hurts. i'm sure there are some regulations about abusing of the service.

there are the most pre-created ISO's available for free as well as in, the most used wizard variants, like, the top 15 or top 20)
IMO - that would create a lot of confusion. people would have to read a doc to find which image contains what. some people are on limited bandwidth and downloading and ISO just to find that it's not what i wanted could be disappointing. wizard is better in that matter as is extremely friendly and you can pick what you want by clicking on icons.

Variant E sounds good to me. :D
every variant looks good if you are the one who invented it :)

thanks for all the ideas so far. i'm sure we'll figure out something.
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby Tonio » 17 Apr 2014, 13:03

I logged in to check what was up in forum. And I got the message that porteus.org was suspended :( . For a little while I was crossing my fingers and hoped that it was just for a while. I checked again just today and it is up :D :Yahoo!: I see many good suggestions, but don't see a ``Big option'' [specialized iso(maybe livedvd)] with all the important packages? in one place. The users can download this iso and then mount it in their own desktops and remove the modules/desktops/office modules/nvidia/ati/etc that they don't want and then repackage it(recreate new iso) or copy it over to their usbs? This way they(users) do their own stuff on their own machines instead of eating up huge amounts of bandwidth?

Also, fanthom/brokenman/ahau/<other developer here> can create their specialized isos with a predetermined amount of packages and put in ponce's repository. If users want specialized iso(using wizard) then users would need to $$ ; this way they can get their specialized iso the way they want it. They(users/beginners) need to understand that while Linux may be free, coming up with the wizard and specialized isos with different packages with an intuitive interface comes at a cost to the developers and it* is not free. There are co$t$ associated with it. They have to be appreciative in the service that they are getting :)

Also another option would be creating live usbs (like the big iso(dvd size) with all the special modules) and sell it for a price like Tomas from Slax? This way they(users/us) can collaborate with Porteus as well. There a small text file with instructions remove * modules from Modules/ folder, remove 00* desktop, and keep the one that you want, etc.

Somehow as a user who is very happy with porteus, (IMHO)In my humble opinion I see that many folks here have exceeded the call of duty going above and beyond what other people do. If people want this or that feature, then they should collaborate in it, if they cannot help with module creation, documentation, then they would have to dish out some $$ ; otherwise they should be happy with what they get and don't complain. My $.02
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby ponce » 17 Apr 2014, 17:24

please remove that "prince of slackware" thing! I'm not worthy! :friends:
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Re: Feedback for "Why porteus.org was suspended?" announceme

Postby fanthom » 17 Apr 2014, 18:09

I see many good suggestions, but don't see a ``Big option'' [specialized iso(maybe livedvd)] with all the important packages? in one place. The users can download this iso and then mount it in their own desktops and remove the modules/desktops/office modules/nvidia/ati/etc that they don't want and then repackage it(recreate new iso) or copy it over to their usbs?
interesting idea but our desktops and browsers are not compatible anymore. you can have only one activated at time (unless you do some hacking) so we cant put everything into /base. we would have to keep everything in /optional and show users how to get activated what they want (move from /optional to /base or use 'load=' cheat). at this point we are reaching the state where user dont have to download oversized ISO but just single modules from ponce.cc and do the same thing while saving time and bandwidth.

Also another option would be creating live usbs (like the big iso(dvd size) with all the special modules) and sell it for a price like Tomas from Slax?
yes - this is something we could think of.

thanks for your suggestions Tonio.

@ponce
not possible - sorry :)
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