Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Technical issues/questions of an intermediate or advanced nature.
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Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#1 by francois » 07 Jun 2017, 17:28

Falcony made an argument in favor of concntrating the effort of the community to arrive to:

Following falcony`s proposition (feel free to modify this proposition of yours):
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6977

Goal: build a broader base of adherents by producing a distribution that will just work
Advanced users could make from porteus good system, but novice are not. So they skip this distribution and select another.


two ways could produce proper modules for porteus - and you know what they are: slackbuilds builded on porteus or pkg2src.

There should be organization of working process - even simple one - to have synergy effect.
Assign by 5 packages to each advanced users - it will give you filially more then 50 modules. Useful and tested. Not bad one. Push it to brockenman iso's. Upload this new and fresh 2 images with your moduled to dl.porteus.org - then announce to news - and that will be deal.

There are about 8-12 advanced users who may work together.
U may have synergy effect - and produce good system finally.
Just come together - create new topic, invite advanced users, set clear target what you are going to reach.
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#2 by n0ctilucient » 07 Jun 2017, 17:53

@ Falcony...
two ways could produce proper modules for porteus - and you know what they are: slackbuilds builded on porteus or pkg2src.
Would the roadmap (NOT wishlist) include a src2pkg "hardened" toolchain?
With the exception of upstream (Slackware) all major distros already have one.

Maybe?... it's time to investigate the merits of that option?
It would be easier than a total rewrite.

I'm working on it. However... my equipment is inferior.
I'm waiting for forensic gear to arrive shortly.

see... GNU toolchain ... Buffer overflow protection
Last edited by n0ctilucient on 07 Jun 2017, 21:14, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#3 by Blaze » 07 Jun 2017, 18:57

francois wrote:@blaze:
Regular input of money might help us to keep brokenman, but also to interest other developpers.
In July I will be at rest (if I done my big job with manual converting data base of Budget-Smart APP).
After this, in my plan update my forum (current forum works on phpBB 3.1.9) to phpBB 3.2.
If need, I can update Porteus forum too, but Joomla website (http://www.porteus.org/) and hosting of Porteus must to support php 7.
All things of updating I will do on test forum, and then I will be ready I will do it on current Porteus forum. This process will be fast (about ~ 1 hour or less).
I think that we can add one ads of Google Adsense above title of topic.
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#4 by Falcony » 08 Jun 2017, 08:21

n0ctilucient wrote:Falcony... are you saying the site/forum needs a roadmap section?
First of all porteus need something like software team.
Let share what software you are using. Answer to this 2 simple q. if you care:


1) Provide list additional(software) beyond porteus base you are using? Provide full list.
2) Select 5 application from 1) - which you are using regularly and ready to update and support. Which you may to support and update on regular basis - if anyway you do it.


First is need to create list of software - which we may to support(1) and which on your thinking will be useful for new users of porteus(2).

From my side it is:

1) The list of software i build (most of this I do not use at all but build)

Code: Select all

abe-1.1-i486-2.xzm
abiword-3.0.0.xzm
acpica-20160108-i486-1_SBo.xzm
acroread-9.5.5_enu-i486-1_SBo.xzm
apr-1.5.2-i586-1.xzm
apr-util-1.5.4-i586-2.xzm
aprx-2.08.svn593-i486-1_SBo.xzm
apsw-3.7.17_r1-i486-1_SBo.xzm
atla-dict-rus--1.31--0.1.5.xzm
audacity-2.0.3-i486-1_SBo.xzm
bitflu-1.52.xzm
boost-1.64.0-i586-1.xzm
burp-1.4.40-i486-1_SBo.xzm
calibre-1.48.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
chmlib-0.39-i486-2_SBo.xzm
chromium-37.0.2062.94-i486-1alien.xzm
CImg-1.6.9-noarch-1_SBo.xzm
clamav-0.99.2-i486-2_SBo.xzm
claws-mail--3.9.0--0.1.5.xzm
cssselect-0.9.1-i486-1_SBo.xzm
cssutils-1.0.1-i486-1_SBo.xzm
cvs-1.11.23-i486-2.xzm
dar--2.3.11--0.1.5.xzm
db46-4.6.21-i486-2_SBo.xzm
devede.xzm
djview4--4.5--0.1.5.xzm
djvu--0.1--0.1.5.xzm
dnspython-1.15.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
dosbox--0.74---0.1.5.xzm
enchant-1.6.0-i486-1.xzm
fbreader--0.12.10-1--0.1.5.xzm
firefox--45.9.0--0.1.5.xzm
firejail-0.9.46-i586-1_SBo.xzm
flashplayer-plugin-11.2.202.632-i386-1_SBo.xzm
gimp-2.8.6-i486.xzm
git-2.13.1-i586-1.xzm
gnumeric-1.10.14.xzm
gnutls-3.4.13-i586-1.xzm
gparted--0.4.3--0.1.5.xzm
gtkam-0.2.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
id3lib-3.8.3-i486-2_SBo.xzm
imagemagick-6.9.4_9-i586-1.xzm
ipaudit-1.0BETA2-i486-1.xzm
jemalloc-3.2.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
jre--1.6.0_26--0.1.5.xzm
libdjvu--3.5.22-1--0.1.5.xzm
libexif-gtk-0.3.5-i486-2_SBo.xzm
libgphoto2-2.5.10-i486-1.xzm
libidl-0.8.14-i486-1.xzm
libiodbc-3.52.7-i486-2.xzm
libmcrypt-2.5.8-i486-1.xzm
LibreOffice_5.0.4.2_helppack_langpack_ru.xzm
LibreOffice_5.0.4.2_Linux_x86_en-US.xzm
LibreOffice-dict-ru-5.0.4-i486_zt.xzm
libtorrent-rasterbar-0.16.19-i486-1_SBo.xzm
lxml-3.5.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
mechanize-0.2.5-i486-1_SBo.xzm
mercurial-3.8.2-i586-1.xzm
mjpegtools-2.1.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
mktorrent--1.0--0.1.3.xzm
netifaces-0.10.4-i486-1_SBo.xzm
nettle-3.2-i486-1.xzm
ngircd-21.1-i486-1_SBo.xzm
ninja-1.7.1-i486-1_SBo.xzm
nmap--6.40--0.1.5.xzm
openproj--1.4-2--0.1.5.xzm
opera-setting.xzm*
opera-stable_44.0.2510.857_i386.xzm
optipng-0.7.6-i486-1_SBo.xzm
p11-kit-0.23.2-i586-1.xzm
pcre2-10.23-i586-1_SBo.xzm
perl-Danga-Socket-1.61-i486-1_SBo.xzm
perl-digest-sha1-2.13-i486-1_SBo.xzm
perl-Net-LibIDN-0.12-i486-1_SBo.xzm
perl-Sys-Syscall-0.23-i486-1_SBo.xzm
php-5.6.25-i486-1_slack14.1.xzm
pip-8.1.2-i586-1_SBo.xzm
podofo-0.9.3-i486-1_SBo.xzm
poppler-0.45.0-i586-1.xzm
psutil-3.3.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
pyqt4-4.9.6-i486-1_SBo.xzm
pysetuptools-18.2-i486-1_SBo.xzm
python-dateutil-2.4.2-i486-1_SBo.xzm
qbittorrent-3.1.12-i486-2_SBo.xzm
qemu-2.7.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
rar--5.2--0.1.5.xzm
rDesktopGui.xzm
ruby-2.2.5-i586-1.xzm
samba-4.6.5-i586-1.xzm
seamonkey--2.46--0.1.5.xzm
six-1.10.0-i486-1_SBo.xzm
skype-4.3.0.37-i486-1_SBo.xzm
t1lib-5.1.2-i486-3.xzm
thunderbird-45.8.0.xzm
tixati_2.53-1_i686.xzm
tor-0.2.8.7-i586-2_SBo.xzm
tor-browser-linux32-6.5.2_ru.tar.xz.xzm
vde2-2.3.2-i486-1_SBo.xzm
wifi-radar-2.0.s10-i486-1_SBo.xzm
wine-1.8.3-i486-1_SBo.xzm
wineinit.xzm
winetricks-20160109-noarch-1_SBo.xzm
wireshark--1.8.12--0.1.5.xzm
wormux--0.9.2.1--0.1.3.xzm
wxcam-1.1-i486-1_SBo.xzm
wxGTK-2.8.12-i486-3_SBo.xzm
wxPython-2.8.12.1-i486-2_SBo.xzm
xchat--2.8.8--0.1.5.xzm
xvidcore-1.3.4-i486-1_SBo.xzm
2) I may support and update modules for this software:

1. clamav (antivirus with proper config files)
2. burp (network backup server and client )
3. seamonkey (lightweight browser & mail with security setting and addons )
4. dosbox (DOS emulator)
5. qemu (virtualization)


I think this 5 will be useful for all.

Then we may decide what to include to final iso - which will be good for all porteus team and novice users. What DE to select and other matters - like access to dl.porteus.org for software team members.

Yes, gentleman - it is very bad to upload and share your modules with mediafire.
No one find it when it is needed. In security reasons and easy for searching and other matters - we need access to this section:
http://dl.porteus.org/i586/current/modules/
and this
http://dl.porteus.org/x86_64/current/modules/

How it is will be organized ftp/git, etc - it is details. It is matter of administration if they really care to porteus be better.
But very important to upload your work if you are join to team to dl.porteus.org - each advanced user by his own.

Who is next?
Not hurry up. Make the list full your are using 1 and then think regarding list of your top 5 (2)

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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#5 by francois » 08 Jun 2017, 13:21

It is good to go into means and into the commitment that each one is ready to do. However, I am not sure that the mission and the goals are already clearly defined.

What is the mission of porteus?
What will attract users and developpers, and especially keep the developpers (brokenman)?

What are the goals we want to attain? What are the problems presently? If the problem is ill defined, the goal will not be on target. An the solutions will go everywhere. Exactly what falcony was highlighting.

MISSION
Alive, dynamic and attractive distribution. Useful for the modern common tasks. Make the life of the users simple. Incite the users to get a better understanding of the linux OS. Provide an open and warm community.

GOALS
Example of goal linked to the mission:
providing an attractive array of packages (matched with mission: attractive distribution)

MEANS
Example of means:
package manager
bundle or module repository

PROBLEMS
Package addition and package availability.
Small community. Few people contributing to the production.
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#6 by Ed_P » 08 Jun 2017, 22:15

IMO Rather than a group of people updating groups of packages/apps, maybe needlessly, having a group of people fulfilling packages/modules requested by users is a better approach. The requested module would then be stored in a location that the requestor and others could download.

The created module would follow a standardized naming format which would include the package's USM name plus the date it was created in yy-mm-dd format and their Porteus user id.
Ed

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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#7 by francois » 09 Jun 2017, 01:47

@Ed:
And what is about the section about xzm modules and xzm modules request for both architectures in the main page of this forum? Do you mean organizing modules by categories as it was the case with the old slax forum? Why do you think that we went to PPM and USM package managers? The package manager is more efficient. But a bundle manager

What would be attractive to a naive user? We are already as said falcony in the chaos.

GOAL
Example of goal linked to the mission:
providing an attractive array of packages (matched with mission: attractive distribution for naive user)
MEAN
Example of mean linked to a goal:
package manager
package builder from source

@falcony:
I think that you are going too fast too. We have to agree as a team, and may brainstorm to begin with. We have to define the essential package categories to attract the user:
Internet
office
system
graphics
utilities

Don't we have to try to have some data on the attractiveness of packages that we will offer?
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#8 by Falcony » 09 Jun 2017, 06:26

francois wrote: I think that you are going too fast too. We have to agree as a team, and may brainstorm to begin with.
I have practice and know that just taking lead to nowhere. While you are going to talk all who would like to contribute leave the topic. All discussions going everywhere except the deal.

I see here some of who may contribute (Neko, Blaze, Ed, Tommy, pmppinho, Bogomips, ncmprhnsbl, etc ). 1-st step - is allow them to do something and share it with all community. Let give them access to current 3.2.2 modules branches for 32 and 64. Let skip bad mediafire practice. That is small step but it be better then we have now.
We have to define the essential package categories to attract the user:
Internet
office
system
graphics
utilities
This kind categories goes from TomasM - and this way of organizing isn't best in my opinion. As u see for ex. - there is puppy disro rep - http://mirror.yandex.ru/puppyrus/puppyrus/repository/

But again - it is is not topic for discussion now. We could reorganize modules and move it late. We could discuss it late - when we have something to organize.

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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#9 by burdi01 » 09 Jun 2017, 09:38

Either you include x1 in Y too or you split off x1 from X into either a separate module or an aggregation module.
Including x1 in Y is easy and does not take more memory as long as you do not run from RAM.
Splitting off x1 is better from a maintenance point of view.
Using a separate module will mean that the users will have to load two modules for one program. Maybe a "dependency loading" feature should be implemented then.
Using an aggregation module may mean that you have x1 loaded while not necessary, but then again this does not take more memory as long as you do not run from RAM.
:D

Actually I have the feeling that the terms "package", "module" and "bundle" are used interchangeably in this discussion. What, if any, are the differences between a package, a module and a bundle?

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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#10 by Blaze » 09 Jun 2017, 14:13

What about to contact with Yandex Linux mirror with request to give access for Porteus mirror on the Yandex hosting?

Code: Select all

Welcome to Yandex Linux mirror, hosted at Yandex, Russian Federation.
My hostname is node04e.mirror.yandex.net
Contacts: opensource@yandex-team.ru
We support http, ftp and rsync protocols.
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#11 by Ed_P » 09 Jun 2017, 15:02

pmppinho wrote:I download package X that has dependencies x1 and x2 and I create a single module or a bundle of it. I don't use this so often and I have placed it in the "optional" folder.
And that is a normal thing to do for a user.
Now, I do really need package Y that has dependencies y1 and x1. So, I create a new module for Y with only dependency y1 in it, because I already have x1 installed as a dependency of the module X.
I would be using this module Y on an everyday basis so I place it in the "module" folder.
Again that is a normal thing to do for a user.
My guess is that module Y would not work out-of-the-box, because it needs dependency x1 and that one is not active, since module X was placed in the "optional" folder. Or am I wrong?
Nope. Absolutely right.
If, I'm correct this could cause problems and could lead to having multiple copies of the same packages in different places.
Yup. The disadvantage of premade modules vs user made modules with USM.

IMO The advantage of premade modules is they save users with slow 'net access and machines time. The offset is they can be larger than custom made by the user via USM.
And, that's why I think is a relevant question to have in mind know, so we all could decide on a module policy. Please let us know your thoughts.
I think a handful of premade modules is essential to attract new users. Internet access being the primary one so a couple of browsers should be available. Then popular user function modules like LibreOffice and maybe a DE or two. These attract the new users to Porteus. After that the new user can build their own modules, with help from forum members, or select from a repository of premade modules members have contributed such as Java and Flash browser plugins, games, vlc, vnc, etc. located in a common download location with meaningful module names.

I think the users Porteus should attract are those who are new to Linux, young and learning or old and just wanting to connect with family and friends.

Asking members to maintain a bunch of modules on going is too much when taking into account there are 486/686 32bit/64bit 4 DEs variations of each.
Ed

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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#12 by Bogomips » 09 Jun 2017, 21:06

Cannot fathom why this topic is not under Development, which is title so clearly fits.

There are a lot of talkers/takers, and hardly any doers. And when one does anything that could help out, no one is prepared to lift a finger to give feedback of any nature nor to help out with testing (exception of Ed_P). There are those who say they are prepared to help, but when push comes to shove just stand back and do nothing. This has been the case for a long time now :wall:, so what I do is to just concern myself what interests me, and if it works put it up to share. Some others like ztrapl are always putting up stuff from which one can profit. My $0.02.
Ed_P wrote:Asking members to maintain a bunch of modules on going is too much when taking into account there are 486/686 32bit/64bit 4 DEs variations of each.
Again, have explained rationale here in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6711

Rationale is that ther are just 32bit and 64bit modules. The simplest official desktop fo 32 bi is xfce, while for 64 bit lxde. Test 32 bit module on xfce, 64 bit on lxde. That is just ensure that the module that is made, works on simplest desktop. After this, with Porteus it's very easy to test the other DEs for clashes. Only come once on clash, which has been VLC on kde. Dependencies in module for other DEs clashing with kde.

There will be duplication, but what the heck! More than a couple of months now been running kde with help of cinnamon DE module.Normally kde would need nvidia driver, but with 003-cinnamon.xzm activated, can do without driver. And this on a low spec system.

Quoting from a related topic.
donald wrote:Given the case a user would want to use a KDE program in an XFCE environment,
it would pull in half of KDE --
do you really want to officially build / host such kind of modules?
Couple of weeks ago wished to to use Konsole under cinnamon. Module came to around 90M. Now the optimized 003-kde5,xzm weighs in at 218M. Module is 20M short of half kde. So for price of couple more modules of 60M, one would exceed kde size. So took bull by horns and activated 003-kde5,xzm in cinnamon DE. There is probably quite a bit of duplication, but it works on the low spec system! Have now a lot of kde apps and access to trickery of cinnamon desktop. Also there is communication between some kde apps and cinnamon apps. 8)
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#13 by Ed_P » 11 Jun 2017, 05:24

Bogomips wrote:Again, have explained rationale here in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6711
http://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=6711 wrote:
brokenman wrote:Regarding the naming convention. You can take a look by typing into a root console (on porteus v3.2): bundles

Code: Select all

guest@porteus:~$ su
Password: 
root@porteus:/home/guest# bundles
 Starting checks ... 
[OK] User is root.
[OK] Distro is Porteus
[OK] x86_64
Downloading live script ...
Downloading: bundles-live  DONE

 #################################### 
 Welcome to the porteus bundle manager

Updating list of packages ...
Downloading: bundles  DONE

 The following items were found.
 Choose an number to confirm. 
 ctrl+c to quit


Type a path to download the file to: /home/guest/Downloads
Downloading:   DONE

Success. Your file is at: /home/guest/Downloads
root@porteus:/home/guest# ls /home/guest/Downloads
17458145_10209519950092658_4378836099519969844_n.jpg  index.html
OpenVPN/                                              ups.sh*
root@porteus:/home/guest# 
/home/guest/index.html

Code: Select all

<html>
<head><title>Index of /x86_64/Porteus-v3.2.2/bundles/</title></head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<h1>Index of /x86_64/Porteus-v3.2.2/bundles/</h1><hr><pre><a href="../">../</a>
</pre><hr></body>
</html>
You might want to reference a different topic. :wink:
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#14 by Bogomips » 11 Jun 2017, 14:11

Ed_P wrote:You might want to reference a different topic. :wink:
Too cryptic for me, if addressed in my direction. :unknown:
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Re: Mission, goals and mean: working toward a better porteus

Post#15 by brokenman » 11 Jun 2017, 14:27

There are no results in the bundles command because there are no bundles being made. :cry:

The goals I have in mind are to make Porteus more user friendly in terms of installation and setting up persistence.
It would be great to find someone that could create an installer for windows. An .exe file that opens a pretty GUI and allows you to select an ISO that will be placed on USB. If you have these skills I would love to hear from you.
How do i become super user?
Wear your underpants on the outside and put on a cape.

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