Module activation - folder doesn't appear in live system

[Rava]

Hi,

Currently working on perfecting my basilisk local guest's settings folder / the basilisk settings module.
I started basilisk by mistake without first loading my settings module and thus it created a new generic settings folder resulting in none of my add-ons available.
Therefore I deleted as guest via

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rm -r ~/.basilisk-dev/

that settings folder, and loaded my module 986-basilisk-settings--2023-11-10.xzm

But I can deactivate that module and activate it again, the folder /home/guest/.basilisk-dev/ never appears in the live system.

Have a look at this:

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root@rava:/mnt/live/memory/images# ls -la 986-basilisk-settings--2023-11-10.xzm/home/guest/.basilisk-dev/ /home/guest/.basilisk-dev/
/bin/ls: cannot access '/home/guest/.basilisk-dev/': No such file or directory
986-basilisk-settings--2023-11-10.xzm/home/guest/.basilisk-dev/:
total 0
drwx------ 3 guest users 31 2023-10-27 04:14 .
drwxr-xr-x 3 guest users 36 2023-10-28 07:07 ..
drwx------ 3 guest users 59 2023-10-28 07:08 basilisk

You can see that the activated module has a /home/guest/.basilisk-dev/ folder (visible as /mnt/live/memory/images/986-basilisk-settings--2023-11-10.xzm/home/guest/.basilisk-dev/ - but the same folder not appears in the live system:

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/bin/ls: cannot access '/home/guest/.basilisk-dev/': No such file or directory

I recall many months ago I had a similar issue and it was due to some special live system deletion memory file where deleted folders and files keep being deleted even when a module got deactivated and activated again.
Sadly, I do not find the thread from back then explaining the issue and also giving the solution (disabling or removing the live system special file thingy that stores the "this folders /files have been deleted info") since all these descriptions are seemingly too vague to find the older thread about a similar issue.

Hopefully someone who knows how to fix that issue will give me the heads up on how to fix that (again).

For now I will just copy the settings folders and files manually into /home/guest/ (and hope this crude "fix" will solve my issue) but I want to have a help file that explains the issue and how to fix it if the same error appears once more in the future.

[Vic]

Yup, happened to me.

I logged out and back in. Problem solved, at least for me.

I seem to always find a way to bork the system, but am learning when to quit.

Some things are not worth the bother, if you know what I mean.

Vic

[Ed_P]

I recall many months ago I had a similar issue and it was due to some special live system deletion memory file where deleted folders and files keep being deleted even when a module got deactivated and activated again.

white files. I run a script periodically to delete them from my save.dat file.

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              find ${SPACEDATDIR}/home -name ".wh.*" -delete
              find ${SPACEDATDIR}/usr  -name ".wh.*" -delete
              find ${SPACEDATDIR}/var  -name ".wh.*" -delete
 

These links might help you understand the problem:
Strange save.dat behavior [Solved ]
Strange save.dat behavior [Solved ]
Help!! Filenames with blanks in them

[Rava]

^
I think I found the culprit:

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guest@rava:~$ find /mnt/live/memory/changes/home -name ".wh.*"
/mnt/live/memory/changes/home/guest/.basilisk-dev/.wh..wh..opq

[fulalas]

@Rava, that's one of the things that I still haven't figured out. But in a nutshell, every time you remove a file/folder that comes from a xzm module, AUFS will automatically create a whiteout (.wh.filename), meaning it's marked as deleted although the file is still mounted.

I always expected that loading a new module (that contains the same file/folder) would overwrite these whiteouts in order to make the file/folder appear again, but that's not the case.

I tried to ask sfjiro (the AUFS maintainer) here, but to be honest I didn't follow his answers, so... Remember to check the whiteouts (in /mnt/live/memory/changes/) every time you can't find a file/folder that gets mounted from a xzm module.

[isr]

@fulalas: Actually, everything is logically consistent here. When you manually delete a dir, then the whiteout file is created in your rw layer, which is at the very top of your aufs stack.

If you later mount a module with that "deleted" dir, then the module is slotted in somewhere in the middle of your aufs stack. So the whiteout file (which you manually created) in the TOPMOST layer still exists, and takes precedence.

The only correct way to prevent this is, when mounting a module, you should (scripted, of course) also check if there are any whiteouts in the topmost rw layer which are under the same path as the module's contents. And then (optionally?) remove them.

[Rava]

Remember to check the whiteouts (in /mnt/live/memory/changes/) every time you can't find a file/folder that gets mounted from a xzm module.

Since its a glitch (when it bothers you, when not it is functionality as intended) that will bother any user, be they noob or experienced one, I think it should be documented somewhere prominent.

And it seems it is possible to be found in two places?
In one of the threads Ed_P linked to above he was looking into this

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find /mnt/live/memory/images/changes/home -name ".wh.*"

while I got no such folder as

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find /mnt/live/memory/changes/home -name ".wh.*"

is the correct place for me to search.

But I don't use changes cheatcode, as the boot screen says for me

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[…]
^ changes cheatcode not found, using memory only
^ creating live filesystem and inserting modules
[…]

and I know Ed_P usually uses the saving changes by default way of running Porteus.

The only correct way to prevent this is, when mounting a module, you should (scripted, of course) also check if there are any whiteouts in the topmost rw layer which are under the same path as the module's contents. And then (optionally?) remove them.

The "optionally remove" is important here. Could be a user wants a certain file or folder and all subsequent files and folders "behind" that deleted folder to be deleted for a good reason.

Or, like in my case, the user wants no such thing.

It is hard to say what should be done. Like I wrote above: the users must be informed that this is how a live system using aufs stacks work, and that it only becomes a glitch when a created white out file bothers the user and must therefore be removed.

Having by default a script that runs on deactivation of any module and informing the user of new available white out files would confuse many users and should not be run for all users by default, but only on demand.

To be run my demand, be it run as one-liner as written above (again: seems it must be either used

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find /mnt/live/memory/images/changes/FOLDER/ -name ".wh.*"

or

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find /mnt/live/memory/changes/FOLDER/ -name ".wh.*"

when /FOLDER is the base folder of what you have issues with, like in my example:

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find /mnt/live/memory/changes/home -name ".wh.*"

or run as part of a script remains to be seen, but I think it should not be run as script by default since it complicated things, and only needs to be addressed when it causes issues.

Ed_P seems to delete all such white out files prior saving his changes into a module. Which sounds legit, but at times might not be what a user wants when there is a specific reason a certain folder or file should be deleted hidden from any later activated module(s).

Then again, even in this case the background on such white out files need to be documented in a prominent way so that a user knows the white out file is causing the issue, and (s)he can easily fix such issue by removing the white out file from either /mnt/live/memory/images/changes/FOLDER/ or /mnt/live/memory/changes/FOLDER/ …

[Ed_P]

Since its a glitch (when it bothers you, when not it is functionality as intended) that will bother any user, be they noob or experienced one, I think it should be documented somewhere prominent.

To the best of my knowledge it's not a bug. It's how linux works.

And it seems it is possible to be found in two places?

Actually they are found in several places. In the script I use to delete them from my save.dat file, which must be offline when the files are deleted, I purge them from these folders.

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echo find ${SPACEDATDIR} -name .wh.*
find ${SPACEDATDIR} -name .wh.*
echo
echo -en "Enter 1 to delete, 2 to exit.\n"
select yn in "Yes" "No"; do
   case $yn in
        Yes ) echo "find ${SPACEDATDIR}/home -name .wh.* -delete"
              find ${SPACEDATDIR}/home -name ".wh.*" -delete
              find ${SPACEDATDIR}/usr  -name ".wh.*" -delete
              find ${SPACEDATDIR}/var  -name ".wh.*" -delete
              echo
              echo find ${SPACEDATDIR} -name .wh.*
              find ${SPACEDATDIR} -name .wh.*
              break;;
        No )  break;; 
   esac
done

And the number of .wh. files listed is always in the high hundreds when I run my script.

Ed_P seems to delete all such white out files prior saving his changes into a module.

No. The save.dat where my changes are stored when I boot ISOs must be offline to have the .wh. files deleted. I don't recall running into them on my USB systems and they use save.dat files also since the systems are on FAT32 drives. My main save.dat is 512 MB and about 57% full.

And I've never deleted .wh. files from modules I make. And I don't recall ever finding a need to. Maybe dir2xzm doesn't write the .wh. files.

I do not recommend making a big deal out of the .wh. file situation. Look how long you have been using Porteus before encountering it.

[fulalas]

@fulalas: Actually, everything is logically consistent here. When you manually delete a dir, then the whiteout file is created in your rw layer, which is at the very top of your aufs stack.

Yes, but why is like this? Why can't we have an option to give new mounted files/folders the highest priority on the stack?

Creating a script to do this manually might work but it looks like a big overhead

[Rava]

To the best of my knowledge it's not a bug. It's how linux works.

You even quoted me saying the same thing using other words. I highlight the crucial part:

Since its a glitch (when it bothers you, when not it is functionality as intended)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Why can't we have an option to give new mounted files/folders the highest priority on the stack?

Creating a script to do this manually might work but it looks like a big overhead

It would be a big overhead, and it might confuse users.

In my book, the best way is to comunicate what can be done by manually deleting only a very special white out file.

And we already are doing just this in this very thread.

[Ed_P]

Since its a glitch

what can be done by manually deleting only a very special white out file.

And out of the hundreds of .wh. files that the user will find how do you think they will know which one/ones to delete? I have found no problems when I delete all of the ones I find in the folders I've noted. Actually I delete even more of them, after I delete the ones in the 3 guest folders I manually delete some of the remaining root .wh. files.

Here's some of what I see.

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find /mnt/loop -name .wh.*
  :
/mnt/loop/etc/X11/.wh.xorg.conf
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/wallpaper/.wh.0_5_1920_1080_307a683caae1a0423dafcea221f1a6ef
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/wallpaper/.wh.0_5_1920_1080_6b9492bc32c4bf0a19f65a949204927d
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-phish-proto.vlpset
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-phish-proto.metadata
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-malware-proto.vlpset
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-malware-proto.metadata
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-unwanted-proto.vlpset
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-unwanted-proto.metadata
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-badbinurl-proto.vlpset
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-badbinurl-proto.metadata
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-downloadwhite-proto.vlpset
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/safebrowsing/google4/.wh.goog-downloadwhite-proto.metadata
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/startupCache/.wh..wh..opq
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/startupCache/.wh.scriptCache-child.bin
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/startupCache/.wh.scriptCache.bin
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/startupCache/.wh.urlCache.bin
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/ple67xm3.default-release/.wh..startup-incomplete
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/dxsqumip.default/cache2/.wh.ce_Kg==
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/dxsqumip.default/cache2/.wh.doomed
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/dxsqumip.default/cache2/.wh.entries
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/dxsqumip.default/startupCache/.wh.scriptCache.bin
/mnt/loop/home/guest/.cache/mozilla/firefox/dxsqumip.default/startupCache/.wh.scriptCache-child.bin
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/mnt/loop/usr/share/applications/.wh.xmahjongg.desktop
/mnt/loop/usr/share/applications/.wh.browser.desktop
/mnt/loop/usr/share/mime/application/.wh.x-cmakecache.xml
/mnt/loop/usr/lib64/.wh.libmozjs-52.so.0
/mnt/loop/usr/lib64/.wh.libColorGearC.so.2

Looks like I need to run my delete script.

[isr]

@fulalas: Actually, everything is logically consistent here. When you manually delete a dir, then the whiteout file is created in your rw layer, which is at the very top of your aufs stack.

Yes, but why is like this? Why can't we have an option to give new mounted files/folders the highest priority on the stack?

Creating a script to do this manually might work but it looks like a big overhead

Huh?? There is no other way it could work. Thats the nature of ANY union filesystem, which stacks discrete layers on top of each other.

1. you need to have a mechanism for shadowing (deleting) contents further down the stack. That's what whiteout are for.

2. those whiteouts you created at the top STILL EXIST (how could they not?) when you later slot new layers on the middle of the stack. You "deleted" the files yourself. You need to "undelete" them. How could the filesystem possibly know what you really intended?

There's no other logical way that aufs should behave. This is entirely consistent and understandable. You only run into this on aufs because of its increased versatility vs overlayfs. With an overlayfs union, you don't really modify the union'ed set after its created. With aufs (obviously, this is the entire raison d'etre of porteus), we do - so this possibility can always happen.

If you want to prevent yourself from absent mindedly deleting files IN THE PAST, that you later RE-ADD IN THE FUTURE, then the solution I outlined in my original post is the only way.

(or you can compile a time machine I suppose ...)

EDIT: ah, I just reread your post, and see that I missed the part where you mentioned top-mounting the new module. My bad.

You CAN have multiple rw layers at the top, where writes go to different rw layers, on a per dir basis. But that would entail changing the general rw layer to not be a "catch-all". In other words, you'd need different rw layers for different dir trees. This would necessitate a complete redo of how the current live fs is constructed.

I don't think you can put a ro layer at the top, though ( which is what you're advocating). Please correct me if I'm wrong

Honestly, this is making a mountain out of a tiny anthill. A simple script which h just shows whiteouts which conflict with any newly added module, that would by far be the easiest option!

[Rava]

And out of the hundreds of .wh. files that the user will find how do you think they will know which one/ones to delete? I have found no problems when I delete all of the ones I find in the folders I've noted. Actually I delete even more of them, after I delete the ones in the 3 guest folders I manually delete some of the remaining root .wh. files.

I speak about deleting one specific white out file in the live system.
And it was no-brainer to know which one is the correct one. See above.

When a user cannot figure out which one is the one correct specific white out file after lurking in this very thread (or the ones you linked to above) to delete from the live system - then that user should better not bother with any white out file(s) at all and best for all of us (including her/himself) just reboot instead.

I presume you speak about deleting ".wh.*" files in an offline folder when in the process to create a module.
And that is very different compared to deleting maybe hundreds of ".wh.*" white out files in the live system.

Do you really suggest a user should delete hundreds of .wh. files from the live system when that very system is, well, live?

[Ed_P]

I presume you speak about deleting ".wh.*" files in an offline folder when in the process to create a module.

No.

And I've never deleted .wh. files from modules I make. And I don't recall ever finding a need to. Maybe dir2xzm doesn't write the .wh. files.

[Rava]

@Ed_P, then you do suggest this:

Do you really suggest a user should delete hundreds of .wh. files from the live system when that very system is, well, live?