Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

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rchase
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Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#1 by rchase » 16 May 2017, 03:40

Please see viewtopic.php?f=48&p=55151&sid=327cbc49 ... d32#p55151

It's easy to use a USB 2.0 flash drive for a large Windows-accessible partition (e.g. FAT32, NTFS, or exFAT) and a small Porteus installation in its own ext4 partition -- how can the same thing be accomplished with a USB 3.0 flash drive (so that it will boot successfully in a USB 2.0 slot)? This is no critical issue, but surely bears on the ready deployment of Porteus, because installations to USB 3.0 drives (to a second partition) now fail to run on machines with only USB 2.0 slots.
Last edited by rchase on 16 May 2017, 17:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#2 by Evan » 16 May 2017, 05:49

Don't know if it's the same problem as yours or something completely different but i've seen people on other forums mention that they had to either enable or disable legacy USB 3.0 support in the MotherBoard Bios to boot drives on their setup.

Sorry to sidetrack your thread if i'm completely in the wrong ballpark.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#3 by beny » 16 May 2017, 10:05

hi i have used in the past usb 3 flash drive into the usb 2 without issue with porteus and slackware too,when using gparted or cli to format device check if have the boot flag enabled?

rchase
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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#4 by rchase » 16 May 2017, 16:57

Evan wrote:Don't know if it's the same problem as yours or something completely different but i've seen people on other forums mention that they had to either enable or disable legacy USB 3.0 support in the MotherBoard Bios to boot drives on their setup.

Sorry to sidetrack your thread if i'm completely in the wrong ballpark.
My options in the BIOS are to disable XHCI, EHCI, or legacy USB support -- none of them worked. Apparently, "legacy USB" refers to USB 2.0 now, at least in MSI's firmware.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#5 by rchase » 16 May 2017, 17:03

beny wrote:hi i have used in the past usb 3 flash drive into the usb 2 without issue with porteus and slackware too,when using gparted or cli to format device check if have the boot flag enabled?
Please read my post; I want to install Porteus to a native ext4-formatted partition on a USB 3.0 flash drive with a Windows-accessible partition already on it and use the drive in both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 slots. It is easy to do this on a USB 2.0 flash drive, but a USB 3.0 drive so formatted will not boot Porteus when placed in a USB 2.0 slot -- booting fails with "Porteus data not found".

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#6 by beny » 16 May 2017, 17:45

well i have done a try with gparted so i have a porteus installation on a usb key i have make a fat 32 partition on it, just to try 1.5 giga porteus boot fine sdi1 and fat 32 sdi2 is here too, porteus but also another system want the first partition to boot syslinux wrote the mbr here.maybe i have wrong the target.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#7 by rchase » 18 May 2017, 03:49

beny wrote:well i have done a try with gparted so i have a porteus installation on a usb key i have make a fat 32 partition on it, just to try 1.5 giga porteus boot fine sdi1 and fat 32 sdi2 is here too, porteus but also another system want the first partition to boot syslinux wrote the mbr here.maybe i have wrong the target.
It's the specific case of trying to boot Porteus from a multipartition USB 3.0 flash drive placed in a USB 2.0 slot that concerns me -- I don't quite understand your reply.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#8 by Ed_P » 18 May 2017, 05:12

rchase wrote:booting fails with "Porteus data not found".
Is this problem occurring on a Windows computer? I ask because I have a similar problem occasionally on my computer when I boot a Porteus system. I find rebooting to Windows, shutting it down and then attempting to boot Porteus works. I suspect there is a corrupt RAM problem but that is a guess.

A second thought, does your USB 3.0 install's boot parms include the UUID of the flash drive? I've had booting problems in the past that were resolved when I added it to my pouteus.cfg and refind.conf configs.

Code: Select all

APPEND initrd=initrd.xz changes=EXIT:UUID:17C8-CC62/changes/porteussave.dat extramod=UUID:17C8-CC62/Modules 
Ed

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#9 by rchase » 18 May 2017, 14:45

Ed_P wrote:Is this problem occurring on a Windows computer? I ask because I have a similar problem occasionally on my computer when I boot a Porteus system. I find rebooting to Windows, shutting it down and then attempting to boot Porteus works. I suspect there is a corrupt RAM problem but that is a guess.

A second thought, does your USB 3.0 install's boot parms include the UUID of the flash drive? I've had booting problems in the past that were resolved when I added it to my pouteus.cfg and refind.conf configs.

Code: Select all

APPEND initrd=initrd.xz changes=EXIT:UUID:17C8-CC62/changes/porteussave.dat extramod=UUID:17C8-CC62/Modules 
Every time that I boot Porteus, I have shut Windows down first; rebooting is not a solution! As for UUIDs, I now use them consistently in my "from=" and "changes=" cheatcodes (as I noted in my first post on this subject, to which I linked in my first post above; please read it). I have not tried this on very many computers, but I believe that I am describing a universal and not insignificant problem with Porteus -- I need expert consideration of this, as opposed to help with a personal problem in using Porteus!

P.S. Any idea how to reset the guest account? I horked it by trying to activate a module of my saved root session (after which the guest account would no longer boot to the desktop. I am hoping for some quick and obvious fix (as opposed to an extended process of gathering error data, analysis, and contemplation -- which I can't do anyway). See https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php ... 219#p55219

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#10 by Ed_P » 18 May 2017, 17:45

One last stab in the dark. After you shut Windows down, turn the pc off for a second or two.
Ed

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#11 by rchase » 18 May 2017, 23:54

Ed_P wrote:One last stab in the dark. After you shut Windows down, turn the pc off for a second or two.
I would say the issue's been stabbed to death already -- I am trying to point out a significant flaw affecting the deployment of Porteus on USB 3.0 flash drives in general; you are determined to make this out my problem. The people who might address the issue meaningfully have not responded. You are a great believer in waiting -- for devices to become ready, for RAM to lose its contents (as if that could have anything to do with a subsequent boot). Try to wrap your head around the possibility, however remote, that I am correct; it sure isn't too hard to replicate the problem if it exists!

1. Take a USB 3.0 flash drive and format it with a Windows-type partition and an ext4 partition for Porteus.
2. Install Porteus to that second partition, installing the boot loader to it.

I don't believe that this drive will boot in either a USB 2.0 or a USB 3.0 slot! I predict booting will fail with "Porteus data not found". A USB 2.0 drive so prepared will boot in either kind of slot. A USB 3.0 drive prepared as described, but with the boot loader installed to the first partition (FAT32 or NTFS) and the boot directory copied there will boot in a USB 3.0 slot, but not in a USB 2.0 slot.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#12 by Evan » 19 May 2017, 00:09

*edit , Ignore*
Last edited by Evan on 19 May 2017, 05:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#13 by Ed_P » 19 May 2017, 00:23

rchase wrote:Try to wrap your head around the possibility, however remote, that I am correct; it sure isn't too hard to replicate the problem if it exists!

1. Take a USB 3.0 flash drive and format it with a Windows-type partition and an ext4 partition for Porteus.
2. Install Porteus to that second partition, installing the boot loader to it.
Well actually I was thinking of getting a new USB 3 drive to indeed test this problem out. But I won't partition the drive as you have done. I will also not format the new drive since it being new it wouldn't need to be formatted. I will then follow the these steps:

Copy all the Porteus 3.2.2 ISO files to the USB drive.
Switch to the USB drive
and Execute the Porteus-Installer.

I will probably do this from Windows but could do it from Porteus, as described here:
brokenman wrote:
  • Create one single FAT32 partition on the USB
    Put all the files from the ISO onto the USB stick
    Open a root terminal and change into the boot folder on the USB stick
    Run the Porteus-installer-for-Linux.com
From a standard porteus install (and assuming your USB partition is at sdb1)

Code: Select all

mloop /path/to/my/porteus.iso
cp -a /mnt/loop/* /mnt/sdb1
sync
cd /mnt/sdb1/boot
./Porteus-installer-for-Linux.com


I will then boot the new USB drive in my new notebook with a USB 3 port and UEFI. I will then boot the new USB drive in my old netbook with a USB 2 port and no UEFI. If both boots work we will know what the problem is. And if they don't your problem will be confirmed.

Also with this approach I won't have a problem with saving or deleting changes because I will be using a save.dat file.

I'll post again after I get the USB 3 drive. :)
Ed

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#14 by rchase » 19 May 2017, 02:17

Ed_P wrote:... But I won't partition the drive as you have done ...
Great -- but why are you bothering to reply to my posts, if you won't respond? You can't "test this problem out" if you do not grasp what it is! It is easy to boot Porteus from a USB 3.0 drive, formatted ext4 or otherwise; that is not a problem. I'll try to make this as simple as possible, though I am just repeating what I have already posted:

1) More and more flash drives are USB 3.0 ones, much larger than is required for a Porteus installation, and, in a USB 3.0 slot, much faster than USB 2.0 drives,
2) one of the most convenient uses for the extra space on a flash drive with Porteus is as storage space useable by both Porteus and Windows OSs -- that means that the first partition on the drive must be formatted as FAT32, NTFS, or exFAT so that Windows can see it,
3) a USB 2.0 drive can be partitioned with a large exFAT partition followed by a bootable, ext4 partition for Porteus and it will boot Porteus successfully in both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 slots,
4) a USB 3.0 drive set up identically will not boot Porteus in either a USB 2.0 or a USB 3.0 slot; by making the first partition FAT32 or NTFS, copying /boot to the first partition, and running the Porteus installer from there (i.e. making the first partition bootable), the drive will boot from a USB 3.0 slot, but not a USB 2.0 slot -- this is a problem for what is supposed to be a portable OS! There are very many computers in the range of 6-12 years old which lack USB 3.0 ports which will run Porteus very well, but at present, one cannot get the best use out of USB 3.0 drives that will boot them.

The question is whether drivers can be included in the ramdisk or some other fix made so that Porteus behaves the same whether installed on a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 drive, or booted from a USB 2.0 slot or a USB 3.0 slot. Ideally, I would make my first partition exFAT for maximum utility and interoperability (just as I have successfully on USB 2.0 drives).

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Re: Installing on USB 3.0 flash drive

Post#15 by burdi01 » 19 May 2017, 17:10

Using my unofficial PartedMagic spin I took my Sandisk Ultra USB 3.0 32 GB USB stick and inserted it in a USB 3.0 port. With GParted I created an MsDos partition table, a 27 GB NTFS partition and a 2 GB ext4 partition. I copied all the files of a Porteus-MATE-v3.2.2-x86_64.iso to that ext4 partition. I then cd'ed to the /boot directory on that ext4 partition and ran "sh Porteus-installer-for-Linux.com". I then rebooted and was presented with the Porteus login screen *). Booting as guest/guest failed, but booting as root/toor succeeded.
I then took this USB stick to another PC, inserted it in a USB 2.0 port and booted. And again I was presented with the Porteus login screen. Booting as root succeeded.

So where is the (I quote) "significant flaw affecting the deployment of Porteus on USB 3.0 flash drives in general"?
:D

*) I have my systems boot from a USB key if present.

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