Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Please post in this category if you are extremely unhappy with Porteus.
WARNING: This section may contain strong language.
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blue4meridian
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Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Post#1 by blue4meridian » 24 Sep 2015, 17:45

Salutations??? :no:

Not for nothing it should be noted there are users that have threaded in both the "Love" And "Hate" section of the forum.
Because in life... it's sometimes a love and hate relationship. Like in my case.
As I stated before I am not "getting" pissed off... I AM pissed off. :evil:

Part of Porteus is it's "forum"... or we are back to square one on "incoherence" like the so-called "Request" section that turns users into beggars?
Unfortunately... you can't have it both ways and NOT be hypocritical. If the section is about hating a distro then the shoe should fit all aspects.

Like most distros this forum has it's share of pathetic philanthropic DIY moderation to hide the fact the emperor has NO clothes.
That is NOT a problem. However... when that raises questions... it is cowardice to kill the messenger with censorship and vilification.

Porteus has a "Haters" section where people use obscenity and profanity which is NOT censored (encouraged?) and is seen as cute instead of juvenile.
Yet... it censors dissent in the same section because moderation in it's forum is seen as a vehicle to vilify or shame a critique instead of disagreeing.

The vilification takes the form of insults... mockery... patronage and censorship. The shaming takes the form of carping about favors.
However... who is doing who a favor? Donors are doing favors with money... Reviewers with accolades... Developers with code... and so on.

But most importantly... the users are doing the greatest favor of all... "using" without which no project "free" or otherwise could exist.
The user installs a "free" system "trusting" it not to be full of malicious code and/or backdoors that could easily create "costly" (NOT free) repairs or worse.

So in truth... there are NO favors. What there is... is ONLY "trust". And that is what community is truly about.
Contrary to the status quo's authoritarian attitude... dissent is a good thing. It keeps us on our "A" game.

It should be noted projects like Porteus stand on the shoulders of giants like Stallman who pioneered the idea that a project should NOT enslave the user.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallmans-law.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ou9rOssPg

Good projects need to embrace the idea of humility. Remember... "coding" is NOT the critierion for wisdom because few in history are polymaths.
Polymath

@ critics... (you know who you are because you worship me by obsessing over my commentary which is why I own you) if the shoe fits... wear it. Hubris

...killing the messenger is easy peasy... but NOT the message. Shooting the messenger
...censorship is delusion... Argumentum ad baculum
...mocking the elephant in the room does not make it smaller. Appeal to ridicule

Best (dis)Regards... :x
Last edited by blue4meridian on 26 Sep 2015, 19:05, edited 20 times in total.

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Re: Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Post#2 by Ed_P » 24 Sep 2015, 18:06

FYI blue, mods are deleting responses to your posting. :unknown:
Ed

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Re: Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Post#3 by fanthom » 24 Sep 2015, 18:13

@mods
Please do not delete this thread.
This section of the forum is designated for users who hates our distro :)

Still - if user breaks forum rules (i'm not saying that blue4meridian does that as i did not follow his posting closely) then please give him a warning and if it does not help then ban. This should be a standard procedure.
Please add [Solved] to your thread title if the solution was found.

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Re: Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Post#4 by francois » 24 Sep 2015, 18:23

@others:
We are doing our job as moderators, and I really hope that bluemeridian will agree on that. 8)

@bluemeridian:
I agree with you here: the importance of users in the linux communities. We can even call ourselves produsers. And we can also talk about produsage:
https://forum.porteus.org/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=1784

Your other reflexions about censorship are interesting food for thoughts. And contrarily to what you seem to reflect, we have tried to take your side and the side of the other members of the community, in term of interests. I am sorry that you are still unsatisfied.

And forgive me if historically in some threads I did not took a stance that was wise enough. There are some sentences that I would not write down in the same way today. It is impossible to erase the past. But I am doing as good as I can now, which is not perfect.

I hope things are better for you now. If not what would you propose to the moderators of this forum as a solution agreeable to the community as a whole, including you?

PRODUSAGE:
http://produsage.org/bookchapters

Axel Brun is a specialist in the field of media, arts, and communication, that coined the term produsage. It means that producers also became users (and its corrolary that users became producers).
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

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blue4meridian
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Re: Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Post#5 by blue4meridian » 25 Sep 2015, 01:04

Salutations... :good:

I think my best proposal other than my first post is for moderators (and maintainers) to realize...

...they don't have to be disagreeable (mock or shame or censor) to disagree.
...telling them to consider something means... telling them what to "consider"... NOT what to do.
...DIY makes a broad assumption that everyone wants to be a developer.
...community is about "trust" and "sharing" NOT "favors" and "begging".
...the above noted principles (forum rules?) should apply to everyone... including the moderators and even the creator(s) of Porteus.

If... this is a truly a community as Stallman envisioned it over 30 years ago.

No one has to share a different point of view... but they MUST respect it if they are being honest with themselves.

In regard to what started it all (the "Request" section)... "consider" this proposal...
...that it be changed to "Suggestions" so suggestions can be made that if meritorious (and doable w/out "favors") they can be posted in "Modules".

So the "favors" and "begging" can be eliminated once and for all. Think of it... as a "Wish List" for modules.
Remember... with a "Wish List" nothing is promised so nothing is expected.

Best Regards... :beer:
Last edited by blue4meridian on 26 Sep 2015, 19:18, edited 13 times in total.

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Re: Killing The Messenger Is Hypocritical

Post#6 by francois » 25 Sep 2015, 02:13

Agreed. :twisted:
Voltaire: Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

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